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Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#701

Post by brhsagain »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #359
brhsagain wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that gloating when your enemies fail is one of life's big pleasures, but would your opinion on the guy change if we lived an alternate universe where Tesla had gotten FSD working?

To answer your question, no, I am utterly unenthusiastic about FSD. When I want to leave the driving to someone else I'll take the train. I suppose I think that's better in the long run, better for society in addition to being better for the planet. I know it's not a popular take.

Okay, but idlewords' comment is one of those things that sounds like it is a clever point when it is actually not. "Ha, the big talker who breaks things is talking big and breaking things again!" All right, so if today's article had been, Tesla gets FSD working, would he instead have been like "wow, this guy ships things that work, maybe I was wrong about him and Mars?"

No, it's just gloating, right? We get it, he hates Elon, and when you hate someone you'll throw whatever dart you've got on hand at them.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#702

Post by idlewords »

georgeburdell wrote: post #214
dshpala wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be surprised how many people want a one-way ticket to Mars. I think Elon can make good money from that alone.

Isn’t Antarctica just Mars-lite? Do you think a mere treaty is hampering settlement there? That’s where my mind goes when people talk about colonizing another planet.

Or how people aren't in a hurry to build homes inside an airless radioactive walk-in freezer, which is still way more livable than Mars.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#703

Post by idlewords »

reaperducer wrote: post #389
dshpala wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be surprised how many people want a one-way ticket to Mars. I think Elon can make good money from that alone.

You'd be surprised how many people want a one-way ticket to Mars. Can I nominate someone?

Don't let this distract us from important work building the Solar Lander

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#704

Post by ignormies »

2h wrote: post #434
panick21_ wrote: post #410

I wish all the ink spilled on controversy over Tesla would instead be spilled on doing basic safety improvement to the road system that are cheap and proven to save many lives. Lets be real here, automated driving or not, having actually save roads helps prevent death and harm in many cases. The hyper focus on high tech software by all the agencies engaged in 'automotive security' is totally wrongly focused. What the…

I disagree. If someone is a bad driver, and causing crashes, we don't say "we need to improve the road system". We suspend the drivers license until they can prove they are capable of being a safe driver. We should hold this software to the same standard. Until it can demonstrate safety at or above human level, it should be outlawed. Road systems should always be worked on, but when a crash happens its usually the dr…

There's a book called "There Are No Accidents" that goes into depth discussing this fallacy that you should read.

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2022/02/15/excerpt-there-are-no-...

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#705

Post by ignormies »

panick21_ wrote: post #569
2h wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. If someone is a bad driver, and causing crashes, we don't say "we need to improve the road system". We suspend the drivers license until they can prove they are capable of being a safe driver. We should hold this software to the same standard. Until it can demonstrate safety at or above human level, it should be outlawed. Road systems should always be worked on, but when a crash happens its usually the dr…

> I disagree. If someone is a bad driver, and causing crashes, we don't say "we need to improve the road system". Well yes, and that is literally exactly the problem. That is exactly why its so unsafe in the US. Because instead of building a safe system everything is blamed on people. In countries that take road safety seriously, every crash is analyzed and often the road system is changed to make sure it does not ha…

I'd recommend reading the book "There Are No Accidents", if you haven't already. Really goes into detail on this.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#706

Post by int_19h »

panick21_ wrote: post #632
dzhiurgis wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent 6 months driving a 2019 Hyundai with lane assist and radar cruise control. Personally it's almost perfect. If you added some smart road features - to improve lane assist and better sign readability (to drop the speed as I enter town or curve and increase when I leave one). I don't need full self driving, just an improvement on speed control and some lane assist. Would smart roads be expensive? RFID responders…

> Would smart roads be expensive? RFID responders seem super cheap compared to how much actual asphalt costs. Authorities are currently unable to remotely control flows, speeds and safety which is completely bonkers. Yeah its not actually that easy. Go and look into train signaling. And cars are not even able to do coupling. Making a train system operate like a super-railway with cars is crazy difficult and has never…

But is it more crazy difficult than making a car that knows how to safely drive on roads designed specifically for humans?

That said, I think even just basic machine-readable road metadata like signs, speed limits, lanes etc would improve matters.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#707

Post by gremlinsinc »

orthecreedence wrote: post #444
panick21_ wrote: post #410

I wish all the ink spilled on controversy over Tesla would instead be spilled on doing basic safety improvement to the road system that are cheap and proven to save many lives. Lets be real here, automated driving or not, having actually save roads helps prevent death and harm in many cases. The hyper focus on high tech software by all the agencies engaged in 'automotive security' is totally wrongly focused. What the…

If we're actually serious about this, we should get rid of roads altogether and replace them with rail tracks. That solves 95% of the automation problem anyway.

Not even rails, could be magnetic, and make cars like maglev trains. Wear and tear would be negligible too, since there's no friction.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#708

Post by 2h »

ignormies wrote: post #704
2h wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. If someone is a bad driver, and causing crashes, we don't say "we need to improve the road system". We suspend the drivers license until they can prove they are capable of being a safe driver. We should hold this software to the same standard. Until it can demonstrate safety at or above human level, it should be outlawed. Road systems should always be worked on, but when a crash happens its usually the dr…

There's a book called "There Are No Accidents" that goes into depth discussing this fallacy that you should read. https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2022/02/15/excerpt-there-are-no-...

apparently youve never heard the phrase "texting while driving" or "drunk driving"

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#709

Post by noduerme »

gwbas1c wrote: post #290
xdavidliu wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they meant "save a few thousand dollars so my Tesla can just have the ordinary cruise control that it comes with, without the autopilot which I believe to be unusable"

No, I didn't mean that at all. All Teslas come with Autopilot. It's adaptive cruise control and automatic steering that will keep you in your lane. It's awesome, and I love it. "Enhanced" autopilot, which currently is $6000 extra, is automatic lane change, automatically taking exits, summon, and automatic parking. The automatic lane change is nice, but it fails too often to be worth thousands of dollars. All the rest…

Prices and packages aside, I'm asking can you turn on basic cruise control without turning on any form of automatic steering?

To me, design hubris is forcing someone to accept a choice-limiting or poorly documented form of automation in order to accept a more basic form. I have a Fiat 124 Spider... love it, but it has one "feature" that I absolutely hate, which is that if you hold the clutch down and brake while stopped on an uphill incline, it holds the brake for 2 seconds after you take your foot off. Presumably this is for people who don't know how to balance clutch on a hill... although the overlap between those people and the people who'd buy this car must be vanishingly low. You can disable this dumb thing - but the only way to do it is to pull the fuse that controls antilock brakes. It's infuriating.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#710

Post by cardiffspaceman »

dmix wrote: post #501
clnq wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that calling it a "recall" emphasises the severity of the problem, which might make it easier to argue that a lot is being done for customer safety to the interested authorities. But I don't think Tesla wants this to be seen more than an OTA update from the perspective of their customers (at least those who ignore Tesla news). I had a VW car that was "recalled" shortly following the emissions scandal.…

The industry needs to come up with a new related term like "Software Recall" Recalling the hardware is a drastically more difficult request to impose on customers and financially/logistically for the car maker. That's a disporportate response just to highlight importance of an OTA update.

I don't see how calling it a Software Recall will soften the blow for the car's user when the user has to drive it to a place where a device can be plugged in to do the update.

With a Recall in the normal sense, isn't there a record that the car has been updated? How is this done if the car is kept fully available to the user?

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