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Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

economist.com

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Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#701

Post by ohbleek »

subradios wrote: post #163
mbreese wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can tackle a problem from multiple directions. So while direct prosecution is important, cutting off a method for converting stolen goods to money is also important. As soon as that method become unprofitable, the activity will either stop or switch to something else.

Regulating legitimate business activity out of existence to support progressive prosecutors ideas about shoplifting and street crime is the opposite of a solution.

Your comment is not supported by the information in the article. Quite the opposite.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#702

Post by standardUser »

uejfiweun wrote: post #259
standardUser wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have been, obviously. That's why we have the largest prison population in the world (and we have to pay for it). It just doesn't work. So if you actually care about reducing crime, and not just getting petty revenge, shouldn't we try something different finally?

> It just doesn't work. Raises hand: uh, I think harshly punishing crimes works just fine. Things were pretty safe while I was growing up, in fact it was even getting safer every year. It really wasn't until we actually did "try something different" with these DAs who don't believe in prosecution and the defund movements that crime actually started to go up again.

Things are safe now, from my perspective. And from a statistical perspective, crime today is dramatically lower than the 70s and 80s. When did you grow up?

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#703

Post by BeFlatXIII »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #65
silisili wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if law enforcement proves useless, give shopowners protection for handling it themselves. Our current attitude of just deal with it/ignore it is not only insanity, it's infuriating.

Assuming you mean allowing them to use violence against shoplifters, I’m curious how far you think we should take this. Should we allow employees to use violent force to recover stolen wages from their employers? After all, orders of magnitude more is stolen via wage theft than shoplifting.

Yes. Call it Plan Romanov.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#704

Post by standardUser »

yadaeno wrote: post #436
standardUser wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a person steals some makeup from a drug store, what danger do you face? What exactly is the danger you feel you are in?

The danger is sliding the Overton window so that society becomes accepting of theft, which makes life objectively worse for everyone including the thieves. Look at things like food deserts for an example of why allowing high theft is bad. Crime is so normal in these areas that its not even viable to bring in food in exchange for money.

The Overton window is being shifted by an economy of poverty, not a marginal decrease in low-level prosecutions. FFS.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#705

Post by Papirola »

abvdasker wrote: post #471
hellfish wrote: post #376

There's a simple solution to this: just leave, and take your taxable income with you. If a jurisdiction can't do a basic function of government, why the fuck would you want to perpetuate the administrative disease any further? Paying taxes to these jurisdictions is like enabling an abusive relationship

Ah yes, the "simple solution" of uprooting your entire life because it takes ~2 minutes longer to buy deodorant.

deodorants are the canary

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#706

Post by hotpotamus »

fakedang wrote: post #694
hotpotamus wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be implying that this is both an NYC problem due to the DA, but also a national problem, so it probably isn't just because of a DA in one city. And that's my question - do we even actually have a national problem and if so, what are the causes on a national scale? I don't know if there actually are answers; though it's obvious everyone has their pet theories.

National problem caused by extreme virtue signaling, which in turn makes these thugs feel like they can get away with anything, while the only risk is to the careers of those doing their job who will be branded "racists"? Honestly, it seems like that moment in the Batman movies after the Batman goes into exile and Gotham goes down the toilet. And for some reason, these don't seem to be as prevalent in Boston either,…

I wonder if there's data regarding national crime and/or national virtue signaling. But I will say that in the last few years, I've lost the sense that there is such a thing as law - merely what you can get away with or not. I wouldn't attribute it to virtue signaling or fears of racism though.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#707

Post by RussianCow »

internetter wrote: post #398
RussianCow wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then you have to buy 4... So not exactly an apples to apples comparison if you only want one.

What a nonsensical argument. Deodorant is a consumable good. In scenarios like this, 40$ for 4 == 10$ for 1, because you consume it at a steady rate, and what you don't buy now you will pay for later

But you still need to store all four sticks in the meantime. Some people have extremely limited storage space.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#708

Post by _-david-_ »

zuminator wrote: post #454
_-david-_ wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Letting people engaging in violent antisocial behavior is barbaric. I wish it surprised me that human beings could think or say such things.

Shoplifting is not violent behavior.

Why don't you think shoplifting is violence? Because you don't believe people have a right to property or because it is theft from a company?

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#709

Post by Macha »

kjeetgill wrote: post #679
Macha wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, from a European perspective who has been to the bay area semi-often, SF - San Mateo - Redwood City - Palo Alto - Mountain View - Santa Clara - San Jose is pretty clearly a continuous urban area and the fact that the subdivisions are considered separate towns and cities more an anomaly of historical origins and local government setup rather than something you would decide working from the definition of town or…

Hm. Maybe it's just from having grown up here but to me those cities are very different places — each with a dozen neighborhoods of their own. And they range from "urban" through suburban, to isolated neighborhoods. Especially when you want to consider them in terms of stores, crime rates, foot traffic etc.

Sure, but to stick with the London example, Canary Wharf, Chelsea, Westminster, Ealing and Croydon are all very different places with differing densities, land uses, socioeconomic makeup, etc.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#710

Post by 1MachineElf »

quacked wrote: post #665
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's very fair to have differing attitudes/moral thresholds for an impoverished mother shoplifting a week's worth of baby formula versus "a couple in Alabama [which] pled guilty to shifting $300,000-worth of stolen baby formula on eBay". I’ve also noticed a weird tendency to downplay theft lately, either through projecting a theoretical moral justification on to the shoplifter or by insinuating that retail…

Few people live in what can reasonably called a "community" any more, so the link between anonymous theft and the erosion of social culture doesn't make sense to everyone. The most remote, homestead-y places will have unattended "stores" where you leave out goods and people come by and leave money in the basket and take what you have. The least remote, most-managed places have security locks on items over $15. It is…

>The least remote, most-managed places have security locks on items over $15. It is impossible to run a friendly, neighborhood-run store when any new customer is a potential thief. When theft goes uncontrolled, owners begin to look at their customers with suspicion. Those who don't like theft leave for more peaceful places and are replaced by owners who will tolerate theft with a big insurance policy and force.

There's a street in northern Baltimore where you don't actually go into any of the shops. Instead, you walk into a foyer-mantrap hybrid made of bulletproof glass. There, the retail employees ask you what you want, you tell them, pay, and then they go get it for you. Experiencing it for the first time was bizarre. Not an area I felt safe parking my car.

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