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Queen Elizabeth II has died

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II has died

#701
post #695
post #333

As a Brit I'm not a huge fan of the royal family on principle, but Queen Elizabeth has been such an excellent head of state for us you really can't fault her. People like to make out her life was easy and that it's not fair that she inherited such a privileged position, but I think the exact opposite. Her life seemed like living hell to me. Every day for the last 70 years she's had to serve this largely ungrateful co…

Why do you need a queen in 21st century? Can't the Brits abolish royalty, how they abolished slavery?

Why do you need a queen in 21st century?

Frankly, we don't.

Can't the Brits abolish royalty, how they abolished slavery?

We could. We won't, not yet.

I say this as a Brit in favour of an elected head of state. It's probably best we get out of the Brexit quagmire first, before we set off another political crisis that splits the country in two.

Re: Queen Elizabeth II has died

#703
There’s a lot of debate in this thread about the rights and wrongs of monarchy, the extent to which the Queen chose to serve, and so on. There isn’t much context about Britain as it was when she became Queen. Since I used to be a historian, I figured I’d throw some in.

Princess Elizabeth wasn’t originally expected to become Queen. Her father was only the second son of King George V and was not expected to become King either. But, in a move that was deeply shocking at the time, the older son, King Edward VIII, abdicated in 1936 so that he could marry a divorcee.

The abdication crisis was complicated and further complicated by the Commonwealth. The members of the Commonwealth, all of whom had Edward VIII as their king, had to agree to the abdication. The government of the Irish Free State, as it was then known, used the opportunity to dramatically reduce the role of the King.

Elizabeth’s father became George VI and she became the heir presumptive. At this point (1936) it still wasn’t clear that she would become Queen. She was just 10 years old and if her parents had a son, he would leapfrog his older sisters and become the heir.

Edward VIII had become Duke of Windsor after the abdication and he remained something of a thorn in the sides of the royal family and British government. There were fights about money and titles and whether the Duke would be allowed to return to the UK. There were bad feelings all round. In 1937 the Duke visited Nazi Germany, which infuriated the British government. During World War II he was considered to be pro-Nazi and was for a while under surveillance by the Americans.

Things had in some ways calmed down by 1952, when George VI died. But the UK was still intensely feeling the effects of World War II. There were several financial crises, the country’s debt was enormous and rationing didn’t end until 1954.

The British Empire had also continued to fall apart. Today many people consider that a good thing, with countries gaining independence and people gaining self-determination. But from a monarch’s perspective, losing an empire is a pretty terrible failure.

I’ve missed out all sorts of things because this was already so long. But that, roughly speaking, was the situation when Princess Elizabeth became Queen Elizabeth II in 1952.

Re: Queen Elizabeth II has died

#704
I am not British but I see monarchy positively.

She was indeed an interesting character, witty, frail yet fierce, out of this time and truly royal.

It’s definitely the end of an era, that makes me a little bit nostalgic.

I have been thinking about this for the past two hours, rewatching the speech she gave at 21. She was hesitant, unsure, obviously unprepared for the death of her father, yet she became a queen at the blink of an eye.

One of my favorite speech, very human, a young lady suddenly realize the weight of her destiny, pledge to put her life, her only life, aside for the rest of her life. She spent the next 70 years being the Queen, no matter what, never complained, never showed any sign of weaknesses, relentlessly performing diplomatic duties.

Being right for 70 years is difficult. I think she genuinely tried.

Re: Queen Elizabeth II has died

#705

It's weird, I've never considered myself a "royalist" but this news has affected me quite strongly. I just burst into tears unexpectedly on hearing this news and I don't quite understand why I feel so very sad. I guess I have grown up and lived my whole life (as a Brit) seeing and hearing the Queen, singing "God save the Queen" etc, and this news made me suddenly feel very old, very nostalgic, with the sense that all…

That's perfectly normal - people felt that way (cried) when Kim Il-sung died, for some reason some people tend to worship their rulers.

Re: Queen Elizabeth II has died

#708

It's weird, I've never considered myself a "royalist" but this news has affected me quite strongly. I just burst into tears unexpectedly on hearing this news and I don't quite understand why I feel so very sad. I guess I have grown up and lived my whole life (as a Brit) seeing and hearing the Queen, singing "God save the Queen" etc, and this news made me suddenly feel very old, very nostalgic, with the sense that all…

I also don't know why I feel that, but I wonder if it's not for a more selfish reason. As in: "I'm getting old and the things I knew disappear"

Re: Queen Elizabeth II has died

#709

I am sad for her passing. Was tuned into the news all afternoon waiting for the announcement even thought the writing was clearly on the wall and the announcement still made me tear up. But for all the talk of duty, morals, and leadership I saw none of that in the Queen. I saw a figurehead. Shaking hands and listening but what did she contribute? Definitely not morals or direction. People talk of her speech in 2020 d…

> I saw a figurehead. Shaking hands and listening but what did she contribute? Definitely not morals or direction.

But that's her role -- as figurehead. The job is to be a symbol, not a leader. Leading is left to the democratically elected politicians, and for good reason. And it's not the new king's job to sway the PM. It's literally the opposite of his job.

And if you don't think she contributed morals? Her behavior was impeccable. She contributed morals leading by example.

Re: Queen Elizabeth II has died

#710
post #333

As a Brit I'm not a huge fan of the royal family on principle, but Queen Elizabeth has been such an excellent head of state for us you really can't fault her. People like to make out her life was easy and that it's not fair that she inherited such a privileged position, but I think the exact opposite. Her life seemed like living hell to me. Every day for the last 70 years she's had to serve this largely ungrateful co…

> Even in her 90s she took her duties extremely seriously, and I respect the hell out of her for that. she was still working (appointing ministers) on Tuesday God Save the Queen

Literally accepted Boris Johnson's resignation and offered the job to Liz Truss 2 days ago.

She was holding on to get rid of him.

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