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Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

blog.zulip.com

701–710 of 790 posts

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't very much lock-in other than the domain names - Fandom wikis are all built on MediaWiki, and they have all of the MediaWiki export infrastructure (which exports everything about a page, including history) still intact last I checked.

Someone will copy your wiki's content into Fandom and Fandom will starve you voa SEO.

If that's really happening, then DCMA take-down?

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand, I met my partner in a community that uses Discord, so I can't disagree that developing relationships there can work. On the other, the flip-side of free-flowing conversation is endless rounds of "hi guys, new here, " "check the pins".

>endless rounds of "hi guys, new here, " "check the pins". This was still a thing back during the days of forums. No, reading comprehension in humanity hasn't improved over the last 20~30 years.

But back then you could google it.

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#703
post #694
post #442

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This should be the top comment.

While I agree with the sentiment that external dependencies are a risk, why should this be the top comment? This person was having a service for free, having the possibility to pay and have better guarantees and is shocked that the service has changed its terms? How is this not an absurd mentality? If gmail suddenly became paid, I would be pretty pissed, but I would have no real reason. It's a service I have for free…

Why? Because it describes a technical solution to a problem, instead of complaining/rationalising.

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes sense. It was a race to the bottom. Now we're at the bottom. It's like 2001 in a lot of ways. Spesh the terrible economics of websites, or apps, or call them almost whatever they want, platforms, anything. Giveaways bring users. Free beer people show up. Like there's no business here. No excludability. It was a prettification of IRC, which of course nobody pays one fuck of a cent for, and now they want to…

>It was a prettification of IRC, which of course nobody pays one fuck of a cent for It's a lot more than that. Addimg a persistent message history and multi-device identities to IRC is pretty huge, otherwise bouncers would never have existed. And the number of paying customers shows that people are, in fact, very willing to pay for it. Slack just really sucks at b2b marketing, which is why Teams eclipsed them so quic…

Teams eclipsed them, because they are by Microsoft. For business people who do make these decisions, they are serious product, they integrate with office, unlike weird things like slack or discord or what have you. And it is free, so.

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#705
I tried using Zulip for a short period of time at a small company with lots of chat and was completely overwhelmed by the volume of messages that that I had alerts for. There didn't seem to be any obvious way to choose not to include the whole company in a conversation by default, allowing them instead to opt in. I had thousands of unread messages and just declared bankruptcy by deciding not to read all of them. I mostly had to just wait for someone to @mention me.

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#706
post #223

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IMO Discourse is crap. I've never personally seen any discourse communities that are as thriving and active as the phpBB, SMF, VBulletin, forums they replaced Something about the design of Discourse does not actually encourage discourse. On top of that, discourse is a resource hog. You can run tens of twenties of phpBB forums on the hardware that's required to run one instance of discourse

Do you know why it's a resource hog? Is it the nature of Ruby (that appears to be what they use) vs php, or is it because it tries to be an SPA that has no pagination? It always appears to load significantly more data that it needs to, and does a horrible job at keeping your place. There's a reason books have page numbers and chapter numbers... without it, Discourse feels like a super long discussion that you just ge…

Ruby is not necessarily more resource hogging than PHP, but the way typical ruby webapps deployed (all workers processes started immediately and left idling to wait for requests) leads to higher memory usage compared to low traffic PHP webapp (worker processes only started when requests is coming and shutdown afterwards, so you can host a lot of small traffics sites in a small server). If PHP webapps are deployed with similar process lifecycle, I imagine it would consume similar resources.

For medium and high traffic webapps, the difference is moot because you're going to end up with a large amount of worker processes to handle all those traffics anyway regardless of how you initially spawn them.

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#707
post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody understands this. Here’s what companies don’t understand: if you promote your product through a loss leader — which is arguably how Slack became popular in the first place — changing your pricing at a later date will piss people off. You’re trying to put the blame on the consumer here which never makes any sense from a business perspective. If your loss-leading pricing strategy was unsustainable from the st…

I think this should be outlawed. So many industries destroyed by cheap vc money, and then trying to raise prices once everyone else is gone. You can lose money doing research all you want, but the moment you start interacting with the market there should be a time limit until you can get your unit economics to work, or get out.

How would this proposed law work? I am really curious how you would word a law to enforce this.

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#708
I haven't seen Mattermost [0] mentioned by anyone here, especially considering it's open-source and you can self-host. Admittedly, it has been a while since I've done some research on these platforms, but is there something I'm missing that makes Zulip or Rocketchat better?

[0] https://mattermost.com/

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this should be outlawed. So many industries destroyed by cheap vc money, and then trying to raise prices once everyone else is gone. You can lose money doing research all you want, but the moment you start interacting with the market there should be a time limit until you can get your unit economics to work, or get out.

How would this proposed law work? I am really curious how you would word a law to enforce this.

I really have no idea. Since the market values uber or a buy now pay later widget (or at least used to) at 50+ billion I'm not sure I understand much how things work. Maybe we need a reluctant philosopher king like in Plato's Republic.

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#710

It's interesting (and sad) how the forums of yesteryear have essentially gone away entirely, with no good solutions popping up to replace them. I know they were/are incredibly prone to security issues, but they were good at one thing and one thing only: community. I recall spending a crazy amount of time refreshing the index on a site called TradeGamesNow (and to a lesser degree CheapAssGamer) waiting for new posts/c…

Not gone at all! There are a bunch of companies working on the current generation of forums. Discourse need not be the "golden child", the other ones are pushing the envelope of what makes a good community. Discourse often steals the good ideas from the other forums actually :) e.g. NodeBB ( https://NodeBB.org ), Flarum, and Vanilla are three in the space. (Admittedly, I maintain NodeBB, so take my recommendation wit…

Not a lot of options where it's a fast, modern language (crystal/nim/rust/etc.) and also not an SPA.
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