Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one is paying $250k salary out of college. Every one of those jobs has similar salary to amazon with the rest in stock. Maybe high frequency traders will give you that cash, but no one else.
It's not unheard of, but usually you need a PhD is a hot field with several conference papers. But it does not seem the norm yet. However, anecdotes make up hopes.
Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire
701–710 of 764 posts
Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire
#702Earlier quoted context omitted.
Needing to see a doctor suddenly means you're a poor worker?
Did I say that? No. That’s quite the conclusion to jump to. I was mere pointing out that maybe some of the churn is justifiable? Most companies have churn, but everyone wants to point fingers at Amazon for what are otherwise normal and accepted business practices.
Mind you this is a worker that was meeting all the bullshit metrics Amazon foisted upon him. His only mistake was being human and needing to see a dentist.
I should ask you this yourself, do you have any decency?
Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire
#703Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my experience there, PIPing wasn't any more aggressive than anywhere else I've worked. The fighting was certainly real, though.
Leaked memos show Amazon’s senior leadership asks managers to “manage out” (PIP or let go) the bottom 6% of their workforce each year: https://bigtechnology.substack.com/p/standing-up-for-us-pleb...
Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire
#704Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been an engineer at Amazon for almost 10 years. Been promoted twice. Ask me anything. Yes, we're having a lot of trouble recruiting engineers, because of discussion threads like this where a lot of misinformation is shared about what it's like to work here. Is it tough? Yes. Is it competitive? Yes. Is there stack ranking? Yes. Is it the most fulfilling and challenging and interesting job I've had in 22 years of…
Can you expand on this a bit? What makes the work so fulfilling? Is it just knowing the impact? The team is good? Are you learning and improving as an engineer?
For me, I spent my whole career bouncing against the walls constraining of what an engineer role was supposed to be. I'd push back against requirements from Product Managers and be told I'm ruffling feathers. (Not directly, but indirectly). I'd see QA or Documentation struggling, and I'd jump in to help, and be told later that my contributions there are not appreciated.
I'd see another part of the company do something wrong, bring it up, and be told there's nothing I can do.
I'd have a great idea and be told "that makes sense, but we can't do it for "
Amazon, on the other hand, always nurtured this within me. Good ideas reign supreme. Most people I work with have very little ego - they just want to do the Right Thing for customers, and ship great solutions that solve real problems. NOTE: I'm not claiming this is universal. There are plenty of egomaniacal assholes that ruin whole teams. Those horror stories are out there too. But in my experience, working on 4 different teams, in 3 different geographies, they are by far the exception.
My last 3 years in my career before Amazon, I was the tech lead for 3 different year-long projects in 2 different companies. Each we built exactly what we set out to do. Each went into production. Each was a collossal failure. Why? Customers didn't want it. We didn't solve the right problem.
This has NEVER happened to me in a decade at Amazon. The "Working backwards" process is LEGIT. There are notable exceptions (Firephone!), but every single project I've personally worked on has been a monumental success. That's super important to me. I want my work to have meaning. I don't want to write code, exchange it for cash, and move on to the next thing. I want the things I build (mostly AWS services) to be useful to someone.
So, this is what fulfillment means to me:
* I can define my own job description via a lot of Ownership, and work on big problems within my job role (SDE), and outside of it. Despite Amazon's huge size, I never feel like a cog in a machine. I have a lot of power to fix problems I see in my team, org, and in the rest of the company.
* Everything I've built I know has made an impact on people's lives (Developers, and their productivity) and that impact only grows. It feels really good knowing hundreds of thousands of developers are each a little (or a lot) more efficient and can spend more time on interesting problems rather than boring cruft, by using stuff I built.
The "learning and improving" part is interesting. I would unequivocally say yes, and was a huge part of what I loved about the company a decade ago when I first joined. But that part is also as much a curse as is a blessing. Sometimes I actually wish I could just pause and keep doing what I'm doing and be GOOD at it without tackling the next tier of challenges. But it seems that as soon as I get good at anything, I find myself seeking the next level of complexity, and the company is equally happy to throw me into an even deeper part of the pool. So to some degree I always feel like I'm on the edge - always not sure if the problem I'm working on is solvable. At this point I just know that I'll get through it and figure it out in time. And if I don't, I'll learn a lot about why it doesn't work. So maybe I just take this for granted now. It doesn't spark joy day to day, unlike the other 2 bullet points.
Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire
#705Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is not unusual at all. My first job as a developer was with a big consulting firm. Undergraduate seniors were hired en masse every year as entry-level staff consultants. The expectation (not stated, but not hard to figure out) was that many would leave within a few years. Some would remain and get promoted, even fewer would stick around long enough to be considered for partnership. The work hours were long (50 h…
I think you have little understanding of how warehouses work if you think it’s just people moving boxes.
Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire
#706Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everyone is Ludwig von Mises these days. Time to start buying stock in Keynes.
Von Mises is generally a laughing stock in academia. Only the internet thinks he's worth dusting off. Von Mises has been missing from proper economic discussions in academia for half a century. He predates when economics was a science, and was expected to produce things that matched the data. Absolutely nobody with any actual training would take his name seriously in practice. Naming him in a non-critical is like men…
Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire
#707Earlier quoted context omitted.
Promotion-orientation is bad, but so are promotion levels that are considered "almost impossible to reach". Levels.fyi doesn't seem to agree with your title inflation evaluation: https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Amazon,Microsoft&trac... It's only 3 data points, but it seems that Amazon Senior is comparable to Google senior, and it's Microsoft that inflates the Senior title.
Sort of. The main issue is that AMZ/AWS doesn't differentiate (by title) between someone recently promoted to L6 (generally ~8-10 YOE) and someone deep in to L6 (~12-15 YOE). Other companies solve this with the Staff Engineer title, but AMZ doesn't have that. If you're an L6 who reports to an L7 Sr. Manager then you're functionally a Staff Engineer and supposed to be on the Principal track. Mileage varies across orgs…
Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire
#708Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a result, AWS engineers are very much promotion oriented. This leads to two results: title inflation and disgruntled employees. L6 used to be a big deal but not any more. L7 is now the new L6. The challenge with this arrangement is that whoever got promoted early on but stayed in the same level get less in return. And apparently it's human's nature to compare. When engineers see that their peers get promoted to L7…
Promotion-orientation is bad, but so are promotion levels that are considered "almost impossible to reach". Levels.fyi doesn't seem to agree with your title inflation evaluation: https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Amazon,Microsoft&trac... It's only 3 data points, but it seems that Amazon Senior is comparable to Google senior, and it's Microsoft that inflates the Senior title.
Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire
#709Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We have historical proof that companies won't even pay their employees with real money unless the government mandates that they do so. Well, we have historical proof that nearly all companies do pay with real money in the total absence of such government mandates. We definitely don't have proof of the proposition you claim, which is immediately falsified by the most cursory examination of history. Note also that sc…
Someone will want to enslave people. This has been so for almost all of history for sufficiently large civilizations. In general humans exploit one another when they can get away with it. In the absence of government/societal regulations slavery will occur and thus the “market” minimum wage is 0. Government regulations can be good and they can be bad. In enlightened countries enough good ones are in place to prevent…
Slavery cannot occur in the absence of governmental and societal regulations, because in that case there's nothing stopping the slaves from leaving. Any such obstacle would be a governmental or societal regulation.
> and thus the “market” minimum wage is 0.
Slaves are paid much more than zero wages. In every culture, a slave in a good position is much better off economically than a freeman in a bad position.
Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire
#710Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being pro immigration doesn't mean you think all the global poor should move 'here' immediately (wherever 'here' is). leftists are more that people who have moved here should be treated as human, not subhuman. It's normal to think your life is more important than other people's. It's weird to live in Texas and think people born 50 miles away in Mexico are inferior but people born 1,000 miles away in New York are the…
I dont know who you think you are responding to. The person i was responding too does think anyone and everyone should have carte blanche to immigrate to america. Also please post the part of my comment where i said hispanics should be treated as less than. Third wold Immigrants in america get treated much better than their own country. As they should! Thats why they come here!
> "please post the part of my comment where i said hispanics should be treated as less than"
This bit: "If you wanted to help the global poor sending them American dollars would go a lot further in their own country". You think they are treated better in America than in their home country. You don't think they deserve to go to America and should stay in their home country. How is that not treating them as lesser people, less deserving?
Take a 20 year old America and a 20 year old from imaginary Elbonia. Everyone agrees America is greater than Elbonia. OK, but at age 20 the American contributed literally nothing to the greatness of America, and the Elbonian contributed literally nothing to the corruption and mess of Elbonia. The Elbonian might even live closer to the American border than to the capital of Elbonia. But because lines on a map, the American thinks they deserve the greatness of America and the Elbonian doesn't. The American thinks the Elbonian should take responsibility for fixing Elbonia and the American shouldn't. See the world as one blob of land with only ocean boundaries and people as equals with equal rights, and none of this makes sense.