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Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

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Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#701
post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar concept: If one was tasked to move a 10-ton block, 1000 yards in 10 days. You can use brute force move it 100 yards a day for 10 days or spend 5 days inventing a way to move it 1000 yards in day and get it done in 6 days.

You might also be familiar with the Abraham Lincoln quote: If I had four hours to chop down a tree I would spend three hours sharpening the ax.

I had not, but that's a wonderful quote. Thanks for sharing

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#702
I am focused 8 - 9 hours a day which I track with a time clock app. I don’t chit chat, read Reddit, or do personal stuff. Outside that, I don’t do any work. No evenings or weekends. I have no work apps on my phone. I expect about the same (or maybe 7-8 hrs) of my direct reports, and I would be surprised to learn the aren’t.

I am disappointed to see so many folks here do so little work, mostly because it means I am accepting insufficient pay for the amount of work I do.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#703
post #38
post #9

I don’t think that what you’re doing is very common, but it’s not uncommon either. What you need to do this is to work in an environment where not being productive is not harmful. There are plenty of environments like this. For example, not doing any work but still getting paid doesn’t do any harm at Google. The company is making money anyway. At a small startup that’s under immense pressure people would realise what…

As someone who worked at both Microsoft and Google... you can get await with doing little work at those companies for maybe a year, two years at most, but after that you're gone. The expectation at those places skyrockets after the first year.

Love the async-ian slip

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, compensation is based on what the company has to pay . There are some other rules, like they have to (overall) pay less than they make from the output. But in general, a company never pays their employees more than they think they have to. 10x programmers don't make 10x the pay. They might make slightly more, but not even 2x what a 1x programmer (of the same level, no comparing seniors to juniors) makes at…

If a company is doing its job correctly, a 10x engineer should not be leveled the same as a 1x engineer. (It's more complicated than that but, y'know.)

if the company is doing its job correctly, its paying the 10x engineer even less than the 1x engineer.

if the engineer is doing their job correctly, they are negotiating to be paid more than tne 1x

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#705

In the last year or two, I have not "worked" more than 1-2 hours a day on average--some days for a grand total of zero hours. The quote/unquote is not there by accident. I manage a team and some projects, and most of the time I let other people do the technical work while I get to chat with higher ups or give some general direction on where the work should go. I consider myself very competent in my field even though…

I find your attitude repugnant. It is the reason I refuse to work for large companies. I would be the one busting my ass to keep turds like you afloat.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#706

I think there's also something to be said for passive processing. Sometimes I'll know I need to write some code or some function and I'll just think about it in the back of my head while doing other things, sometimes for a whole day or two. Then I'll sit down and write it in like 20-30 minutes. Did I work 20-30 minutes, or have I been working for a day or two? I would say a day or two, and the 20-30 minutes was the t…

Adding my voice to this one. I think a lot of work 'normal people' i.e. the PMs the non-technical management, the sales people etc. really don't get how we techies work. Because they have to do 'active' work all day long to keep on top, they think everyone is like that, where in reality we are really efficient in short bursts. I can ponder a deliverable for days and then just churn it out over a few hours, only takin…

As someone who switched majors and became programmer, I experienced a great example of this when I first started programming.

Starting out, if I spent a whole day thinking over a problem or writing code that I ultimately had to scrap, I would tell people I got nothing done that day and it was a waste.

Now if I do that, I see if as the necessary troubleshooting that all must go through to solve the problem.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#707

In the last year or two, I have not "worked" more than 1-2 hours a day on average--some days for a grand total of zero hours. The quote/unquote is not there by accident. I manage a team and some projects, and most of the time I let other people do the technical work while I get to chat with higher ups or give some general direction on where the work should go. I consider myself very competent in my field even though…

I'd love to hear more about how you operate. Do you write?

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#709
It's true. We don't work a full 8 hours but our profession depends on constant learning and processing problems in our heads. So even if we aren't doing anything physically we are processing the problem we must solve. Rarely is it a situation where we have a solution as soon as we hear the problem. But yeah, if we want, we can just coast if that's what we choose, specially, if you are part of a large group working on the same project. It all comes down to the manager. A manager that's constantly pushing will get the most of the group but there's also the danger of pushing too much since developers can easily get a new position and leave.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#710

I've been there. Maybe not 5 hours a week but certainly 10. I was in a small company that got acquired, and the organizational bloat really killed my productivity. Having to deal with paperwork for payroll and pointless meetings was a distraction from the actual work. I think this contributed to a creeping burnout, which led to me actually working 10 to 25 (tops) hours per week for maybe a year or two. Eventually I w…

when i was contracting i had this same epiphany. the trick is to double your rate and halve your hours. then you don’t feel guilty about not being uber productive and ironically the clients listen to you more because they’re paying more for it.

edit: also wanted to say that billable hours are NOT the same as working hours, pretty much for all the reasons outlined elsewhere in this post. so don’t beat yourself up about it. just work the system.

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