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How to Work Hard

paulgraham.com

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Re: How to Work Hard

#701

Post by amatecha »

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #639
WalterSear wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, I've been burnt out too many times now, for too long. Every job now ends in burn out and takes 6+ months to recover from before I can start looking for another job. This time, however, feels different - it never felt insurmountable like this before. I can't work on my own stuff, can't level up my skills, not sure how to get back to that. I suspect that my situation is likely common among aging coders a…

So stop coding, or put yourself out to pasture at a low intensity coding gig. I came from a family of engineers and I watched my dad work himself to death at the expense of virtually everything else in life. One day he up and died, and that was the end of it. Most of his projects are no longer applicable or noteworthy. Life is the process of taking a daily step towards death every day. In 100 years, no one is going t…

Thank you for the reminder. It's hard to see the reality with such clarity, sometimes. <3

Re: How to Work Hard

#702

Post by [deleted] »

lubesGordi wrote: post #597
bachmeier wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the article explicitly agrees with you that just hard work isn't enough It does not in any way agree with me. I am saying luck is important. If that's anywhere in there, I missed it. > Why would they promote hard work if hard work didn't matter? Hard work is not the distinguishing characteristic. Luck is. Why promote hard work? Because someone else is working hard for your benefit.

So just to be clear, you're saying that in order to be successful, you have to be lucky, primarily?

[deleted]

Re: How to Work Hard

#703

Post by goatlover »

pdimitar wrote: post #582
heavenlyblue wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why sitting through a movie is a bad thing? Have you tried watching some “harder” movies? Maybe you’re just bored with the specific movies you are watching. I for example know that I have a very specific love for sci-fi genre; but unfortunately a lot of sci-fi is basically trash with good CGI and I can’t help myself but think that I am wasting my time when I watch stuff in that comfort zone. However there’s a lot to…

Severely off-topic to the OP but have you tried watching "Battlestar Galactica" in full? (The remake from the 2004+, not the original -- tried the original and didn't like it at all.) I mean, you don't get much CGI there but the premise is extremely realistic and the actors are absolutely brilliant. Plus, you'll get to cry, a lot, during the long series finale.

Or The Expanse, if you want realistic space battles and what our potential future might look like if we do colonize the solar system.

Re: How to Work Hard

#704

Post by themacguffinman »

jcims wrote: post #428
caymanjim wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this trope for decades, but the only time I've seen it manifest is when the 40+ people haven't learned anything in 20 years. Are there people in their 40s who've kept their skills up and still aren't getting hired?

>Are there people in their 40s who've kept their skills up and still aren't getting hired? Those are my people and the answer, at least for my cohort, is an emphatic no. They are extremely mobile and move from job to job with relative ease.

Ok but how common is this? Can the average old developer expect to have "kept their skills up" to some arbitrary standard even though we know humans tend to calcify in their thinking, have lower risk appetite and worse memory as they get older? If my cohort consisted of John Carmack and Jeff Dean type outliers, I could also claim that they have no trouble getting jobs in their older age but it wouldn't be a particularly helpful observation for most developers. IMO it's a very realistic & plausible scenario for many to not have kept their skills up and end up unhireable as they get older.

Re: How to Work Hard

#705

Post by sidlls »

lubesGordi wrote: post #597
bachmeier wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the article explicitly agrees with you that just hard work isn't enough It does not in any way agree with me. I am saying luck is important. If that's anywhere in there, I missed it. > Why would they promote hard work if hard work didn't matter? Hard work is not the distinguishing characteristic. Luck is. Why promote hard work? Because someone else is working hard for your benefit.

So just to be clear, you're saying that in order to be successful, you have to be lucky, primarily?

I’d agree with that. Luck is absolutely a requirement and it is definitely more important than any other factor.

Re: How to Work Hard

#706

Post by v3np »

nonbirithm wrote: post #414
helen___keller wrote: post #162

When I was an undergrad at CMU, I learned how to work hard. Really hard. After having coasted through too-easy high school, I spent all day every day at CMU either programming, doing mathematics, or thinking about one of those things (to great effect: often the trick to prove a theorem would pop into my head while showering or while taking a walk). I would fall asleep while programming in the middle of the night, dre…

I feel the same. I can hardly sit through an entire two-hour movie or play a video game without feeling like I should be doing something else. I cannot feel good about myself if I cannot sense that I'm making progress learning a skill, and am stuck for hours looking down at a blank page as a result. But what's dangerous for me is that this alarm system does not trigger consistently. I might spend too much time on HN,…

I don't have anything substantial to add to the discussion beyond another data point: I also relate to the feeling of wanting to be 'productive' most of the time and not really enjoying pure leisure time. I recently spent 2 weeks working remotely from a nice location in Italy and definitely would've enjoyed the time less if I couldn't have also worked from there. I also enjoy hobbies/free-time less when I believe it ultimately doesn't lead myself to becoming the person I want to be.

On the one hand, I think this is only natural if you are an ambitious person (this desire is imho exactly one of the things that allow a person to achieve ambitious feats); on the other hand, I am definitely struggling with finding enjoyable, non-work activities that recharge me.

Re: How to Work Hard

#707

Post by borroka »

bhupy wrote: post #366
nineplay wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about YOLO, it's about looking at your life though a lens besides "work,work,work,save,save,save" When I was 25 I had the time and the money to take a couple of weeks off and travel. I wouldn't have stayed in the nicest hotels or eaten in fancy restaurants, but I could have done it. It would have had no negative impact on my career and my current financial status. What kept me from doing it wasn't a careful…

I don't think we disagree here; my point is that there is a broad spectrum between "YOLO" and "work,work,work,save,save,save"; and that it's up to you to decide where on that spectrum you want to be. From PG's article, he acknowledges that the hard work is a necessary but not sufficient condition to do "great work" (in his words). "There are three ingredients in great work: natural ability, practice, and effort. You…

If a middle school student was to come to me, a hypothetical English teacher, with an essay including the following: "There are three ingredients in great work: natural ability, practice, and effort. You can do pretty well with just two, but to do the best work you need all three",

I would tell them, my friend, come back with some ideas of yours, please do not list simplistic views just to get the nod of approval of your audience of middle-school students/ bored teachers/programmers.

PS. We all have seen plenty of people who did great work with top natural abilities, little effort and little practice. Such is life. I had a similar reaction of disbelief when at a work-sponsored leadership development program, the instructor told us that one of the special traits of Fortune 500 CEOs (they all like to talk about CEOs) is empathy. It sounds good, yes it does; the only problem is that it contradicts what one can see with their own eyes every single day.

Re: How to Work Hard

#708

Post by epicureanideal »

quacked wrote: post #640
WalterSear wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, I've been burnt out too many times now, for too long. Every job now ends in burn out and takes 6+ months to recover from before I can start looking for another job. This time, however, feels different - it never felt insurmountable like this before. I can't work on my own stuff, can't level up my skills, not sure how to get back to that. I suspect that my situation is likely common among aging coders a…

Why not work a service job for a while? There's no delayed gratification in bartending or waiting tables. Show up, clock in, serve drinks, go home. It's not easy, but the success conditions are clear, and when you're done you can completely forget about it until it's time to go in again.

I imagine that in comparison to the income from software engineering that would just feel like a waste of time.

Re: How to Work Hard

#709

Post by brudgers »

nonbirithm wrote: post #414
helen___keller wrote: post #162

When I was an undergrad at CMU, I learned how to work hard. Really hard. After having coasted through too-easy high school, I spent all day every day at CMU either programming, doing mathematics, or thinking about one of those things (to great effect: often the trick to prove a theorem would pop into my head while showering or while taking a walk). I would fall asleep while programming in the middle of the night, dre…

I feel the same. I can hardly sit through an entire two-hour movie or play a video game without feeling like I should be doing something else. I cannot feel good about myself if I cannot sense that I'm making progress learning a skill, and am stuck for hours looking down at a blank page as a result. But what's dangerous for me is that this alarm system does not trigger consistently. I might spend too much time on HN,…

I might spend too much time on HN

Maybe it is evidence of an interest in writing. I am pretty sure that is the case with me. There is no place more likely to produce quick direct and possibly thoughtful feedback.

Writing for pleasure is a thing that is hard to accept as worthwhile. It costs our lives. Hours we will never get back for imaginary internet points.

But…oops I did it again as they sing.

Re: How to Work Hard

#710

Post by [deleted] »

darkwizard42 wrote: post #618
helen___keller wrote: post #162

When I was an undergrad at CMU, I learned how to work hard. Really hard. After having coasted through too-easy high school, I spent all day every day at CMU either programming, doing mathematics, or thinking about one of those things (to great effect: often the trick to prove a theorem would pop into my head while showering or while taking a walk). I would fall asleep while programming in the middle of the night, dre…

As someone who also did their undergrad at CMU, I can confirm that it was the hardest I've ever worked (even considering my 10+ years of professional experience). It was burnout level with how many units you had to carry and how difficult some of the advanced math and CS classes became. We used to sit in the Tepper Faculty Lounge (always unlocked = free coffee) many nights from 10 PM - 4 AM to merely crank out a 6-qu…

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