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America has a drinking problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: America has a drinking problem

#701

Post by mantas »

snovv_crash wrote: post #688
ABCLAW wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's hard to reduce the US to a single culture. The US had a very particular set of economic conditions in respect of infrastructure quality, volume of arable land for corn production, and corn vs corn mash distillate transport costs. The result? "[In the 1790s], the settlement of the so-called “corn belt” in the Midwest created large new supplies of corn, which was cheaper and more profitable to convert into whiske…

I visited a castle in Switzerland (Chateau de Chillon) and they had a presentation on medieval eating and drinking habits. Apparently it was absolutely normal for everyone who could afford it to be drunk all of the time, from seamstresses to soldiers. I don't think our modern efficiency-conscious society can really understand what it was like back then.

Two key bits - how drunk and who could afford it.

Safe drinking water was a pain in the ass. So mild alcoholic drinks was the norm. That that'd give you a little buzz at best.

Very few people could have afforded to be truly shitfaced 24/7.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#702

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

tolbish wrote: post #649
Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL wrote: post #636

Whenever I explain the "USA" to (Eastern) Europeans, I always simply state the notion: "diverse country of the extremes". Yes, widespread obesity, but health obsessions also run deep in that country, gym memberships, elite universities with sports programs full of money. How many weird diet fads start basically in the US? Self-help books, alternative gurus, etc. Bad education? Yes, pretty much. But also some of the b…

Policymakers don't really have to deal with the realities of what you mention. Like the bad education, for instance. That isn't really "your problem". The externalities of an awful public education system are borne by the unfortunates. Not you, who did things right, and not the people like you, who it is important you identify with. And so you're not going to give that issue anything more than lip service. ^ also wri…

The fundamental moral basis of the US is that some people are born better than others.

If you have money, you're one of the chosen ones. The more money the better, without end. The losers who don't have money are not your problem. If they were as superior as you are they'd sort themselves out and have money too. But they don't, and of course that just proves how inferior they are.

It's absolutely an 18th century aristocracy with Internet.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#703

Post by CapricornNoble »

watwut wrote: post #614
CapricornNoble wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote: we've had curfews/restrictions that prevented the American military from drinking alcohol at establishments in the local community, sometimes for over a year. Almost all of my peers at the time would rather sit at the Officers' Clubs on base and get drunk, as if it was their only option for socializing. My take (granted, I had quit drinking years prior): I know you guys can't drink off-base, but....that's w…

> I would expect your desire to get laid to exceed your desire to hide inside your alcohol-infused comfort zone.... Honest question: what is his realistic chance to get laid with non-prostitute? How much money would it cost to pay sex worker? I also suspect that going around bars while not drinking looking for girl to have sex with might involve a lot of rejection and a lot of effort. > The people I hang out with (ev…

>>>Honest question: what is his realistic chance to get laid with non-prostitute?

At the time, pretty high. The clubs and bars were very active, and "gaijin-hunter" Japanese women are notoriously easy. If you are halfway-attractive and at least a LITTLE charismatic, you should be able to snag a one-night stand or two, and then a girlfriend in.....6 weeks? That's assuming going out Friday/Saturday every weekend. If you aren't drinking alcohol, it's not that expensive either. If you end up with a relationship that lasts a few months or more, I consider that a pretty good ROI.

>>>How much money would it cost to pay sex worker?

Depending on service (incall/outcall) and location...$100-$300+.

>>>I also suspect that going around bars while not drinking looking for girl to have sex with might involve a lot of rejection and a lot of effort.

It does put you "not on the wavelength" of people when they are drunk, doubly so if they are kinda dumb too. You can overcome these hurdles by being attractive, and knowing the right conversational hooks to say in their native language to build rapport quickly and lazily. Building that skillset does take time, and brings other risks (PUA's call it "calibration"....in my experience, "calibrating" for Japanese women can over-fit your social skills for a small dataset, and then your Game suffers when you engage with women from different cultures).

>>>I honestly never socialized with people like that. I had always stable relationships and most my friends tended to form those too. Not everyone is for quick hookups.

90% of my wingmen have been in stable relationships. That's never stopped any of us from adding to our harems. If you have a wife, get a mistress. If you have a mistress, get a side-chick. If you have a side-chick, get a fuck-buddy. If you have all four of those, bang all of them during the week, so on the weekend you can get some head in your car in the parking lot from a new girl, who might be a suitable replacement for any of the last 3 of your regulars (I don't recommend replacing your wife with a club-rat...).

I had a roommate that kept his accountant side-chick for over 5 years, even after his wife found out. She paid his $20,000 bail when he was getting kicked out of the country, no questions asked. That said....those kind of reliable women are rarely found in bars/clubs, but if you never venture outside of your fortified American enclave because you can't consume alcohol in town, how would a guy ever find out either way?

Re: America has a drinking problem

#704

Post by burntoutfire »

victorp13 wrote: post #665

I'm curious as to what the movie/tv industry's role is in this increase in solitary drinking. I was an active 'solo' drinker as well, who recently stopped altogether. Since I stopped I've noticed something peculiar that I wonder if other people noticed as well: A lot of TV shows and movies contain scenes where alcohol is being positioned as a "fix" for something. - Just had a tough situation? Have a drink! - Feeling…

I suspect it might be just writers being lazy and following the easy tropes.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#705

Post by hallway_monitor »

capableweb wrote: post #656
Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL wrote: post #636

Whenever I explain the "USA" to (Eastern) Europeans, I always simply state the notion: "diverse country of the extremes". Yes, widespread obesity, but health obsessions also run deep in that country, gym memberships, elite universities with sports programs full of money. How many weird diet fads start basically in the US? Self-help books, alternative gurus, etc. Bad education? Yes, pretty much. But also some of the b…

Neither of the things you've listed sounds like diversity, it sounds like inequality. Why is half the country without proper education while the other ones are in the best research institutions in the world? And what does the people are those institutions spend their time on, if it's not helping the other half reaching the same position as themselves? The social experiment seems to be about how extreme you can really…

Freedom creates inequality. The freedom to excel comes with the freedom to do poorly at the game. Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort.

We do give away a lot of welfare to people who are doing poorly. It might be more effective to stop giving people money and use it instead to create programs to provide better jobs and skill training.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#706

Post by porknubbins »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #670
SilverRed wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public drinking laws are not because the government thinks the average person can't be trusted. It's because the homeless population has a large drinking problem and it often results in people getting assaulted on the street. These laws let the police do something about this before it results in harm.

This certainly does not explain having such laws in the vast areas of the US that doesn't have such a homeless problem. While I know there are homeless folks everywhere, it isn't such an issue to pass special drinking laws. I think your drinking laws are more rooted in conservative Christianity and disdain for poor folks that might just drink up their welfare money somehow.

I think it does because legal codes mostly do not evolve organically in every small town, they are just copied from elswehere, though enforcement which requires human discretion is more local of course.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#707

Post by madcows »

hallway_monitor wrote: post #705
capableweb wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of the things you've listed sounds like diversity, it sounds like inequality. Why is half the country without proper education while the other ones are in the best research institutions in the world? And what does the people are those institutions spend their time on, if it's not helping the other half reaching the same position as themselves? The social experiment seems to be about how extreme you can really…

Freedom creates inequality. The freedom to excel comes with the freedom to do poorly at the game. Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort. We do give away a lot of welfare to people who are doing poorly. It might be more effective to stop giving people money and use it instead to create programs to provide better jobs and skill training.

> It might be more effective to stop giving people money and use it instead to create programs to provide better jobs and skill training.

That's a false dichotomy. There's no actual lever for "provide better jobs and skill training."

In reality, it's either more money directed at the poors, or more directed towards the rich. And that's how people vote.

"Better jobs and skill training" means "give it to the rich so they can make the poors think they're doing something for them."

Re: America has a drinking problem

#708

Post by gambiting »

hallway_monitor wrote: post #705
capableweb wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of the things you've listed sounds like diversity, it sounds like inequality. Why is half the country without proper education while the other ones are in the best research institutions in the world? And what does the people are those institutions spend their time on, if it's not helping the other half reaching the same position as themselves? The social experiment seems to be about how extreme you can really…

Freedom creates inequality. The freedom to excel comes with the freedom to do poorly at the game. Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort. We do give away a lot of welfare to people who are doing poorly. It might be more effective to stop giving people money and use it instead to create programs to provide better jobs and skill training.

>>Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort.

For a simple reason - because we know, empirically, through decades of studies(some of which were done by the very US of A!), that it produces better results for the entire society. I've learnt long ago that it doesn't matter how I feel about benefits system personally - yeah I hate that some people get money for doing nothing. But it's literally irrelevant - we know through hard data that it works and produces good results. So the whole question of "how much effort has someone put in" is amusing to debate online, but it should be worth exactly zero when deciding policy.

>>The freedom to excel comes with the freedom to do poorly at the game.

Is it freedom though? How many of Americans can't get into these best education programs because they can't afford it? Yes, I am aware that there are grants and funds available if you really are poor - but you still have to apply. What if the chances were really equal - all higher education completely free to attend like it is in some other countries? Both the best university in the country and the worst both have the exact same cost of admission = zero. Isn't that what freedom is?

Re: America has a drinking problem

#709

Post by quotemstr »

capableweb wrote: post #656
Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL wrote: post #636

Whenever I explain the "USA" to (Eastern) Europeans, I always simply state the notion: "diverse country of the extremes". Yes, widespread obesity, but health obsessions also run deep in that country, gym memberships, elite universities with sports programs full of money. How many weird diet fads start basically in the US? Self-help books, alternative gurus, etc. Bad education? Yes, pretty much. But also some of the b…

Neither of the things you've listed sounds like diversity, it sounds like inequality. Why is half the country without proper education while the other ones are in the best research institutions in the world? And what does the people are those institutions spend their time on, if it's not helping the other half reaching the same position as themselves? The social experiment seems to be about how extreme you can really…

Why do you suppose that under conditions of perfect fairness we would see perfect equality? That's just not the case. Human talent is not sprinkled in the proportion in each person. You can achieve equality only through Harrison Bergeron measures. I'd rather have freedom.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#710

Post by watwut »

hallway_monitor wrote: post #705
capableweb wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of the things you've listed sounds like diversity, it sounds like inequality. Why is half the country without proper education while the other ones are in the best research institutions in the world? And what does the people are those institutions spend their time on, if it's not helping the other half reaching the same position as themselves? The social experiment seems to be about how extreme you can really…

Freedom creates inequality. The freedom to excel comes with the freedom to do poorly at the game. Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort. We do give away a lot of welfare to people who are doing poorly. It might be more effective to stop giving people money and use it instead to create programs to provide better jobs and skill training.

> Freedom creates inequality. The freedom to excel comes with the freedom to do poorly at the game. Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort.

I really dont think the difference is just in "effort". If I inherit money I did not put in effort, but I am getting super ahead. The luck plays role too. Plus, how much additional advantage I can get from being already little bit ahead is what creates a lot of inequality.

America is not known for a lot of welfare either. It is not country where it is comfortable or easy to be poor.

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