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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

annehelen.substack.com

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#701

Post by ehnto »

deburo wrote: post #618
blihp wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 10% margin also often doesn't tell the whole story of how they make their money. Nearly since its inception, a substantial portion of McDonald's long term profit came from the appreciation of the real estate the stores were built on. Operating a business on it just made it cash flow positive during the holding period. So it was essentially a REIT that happened to operate a fast food chain. Even for many mom-and-pop…

>If they honestly can't afford to pay a living wage It's not logical to kill businesses by arbitrarily raising the minimum wage. Do you think the people they employ are better off not working at all? These people may not have a decent enough salary, but they get to work as opposed to staying at home and degenerate (mentally and physically). I always thought the better solution is to help them financially in other way…

Please think about the holistic nature of your argument. The sum of it's parts essentially suggests that taxpayers should subsidize the employment costs of businesses, which is ridiculous.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#702

Post by adamsiem »

Labor shortage. For my beer garden, I couldn’t find part-time workers. However, I could hire people with full-time jobs who wanted to work 1-2 standing shifts each week in a fun place with a respectful community. I think we are more the exception than a Dale’s (article reference), but this answers the labor shortage vs. terrible jobs question for me.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#703

Post by wonnage »

deburo wrote: post #618
blihp wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 10% margin also often doesn't tell the whole story of how they make their money. Nearly since its inception, a substantial portion of McDonald's long term profit came from the appreciation of the real estate the stores were built on. Operating a business on it just made it cash flow positive during the holding period. So it was essentially a REIT that happened to operate a fast food chain. Even for many mom-and-pop…

>If they honestly can't afford to pay a living wage It's not logical to kill businesses by arbitrarily raising the minimum wage. Do you think the people they employ are better off not working at all? These people may not have a decent enough salary, but they get to work as opposed to staying at home and degenerate (mentally and physically). I always thought the better solution is to help them financially in other way…

Same argument is used by Americans to justify sweatshops in SE Asia. TBF, not much you can do about working conditions in other countries, so you might as well rationalize it and wear cheap clothes. It says a lot about an individual who chooses the same strategy for their own countrymen too.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#704

Post by neilwilson »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

"I'm just saying that both sides of the equation need to be examined, i.e. the plight of the worker AND the plight of the business."

It was examined. In 1944 in the Beverage Report "Full Employment in a Free Society". It concluded that people not earning sufficient to eat is an order of magnitude more harm than businesses not earning a profit and that the labour market should always be a sellers market, not a buyers market.

"But watch out for technology and automation...that is the part of the equation that has been "solving" the labor problem"

That's sort of the point. However micro-solving the labour problem with automation to drive forward productivity leaves you with a big problem - given wages are the primary source of demand, who are you going to sell the output of the robots to?

The underlying assumption here is always that the private sector provides the jobs. Look at the vacancies vs the number of people without work that want it. Then you'll realise that the private sector is systemically incapable of supplying sufficient jobs to go around. It always stops short. Which means that jobs have to be topped up by the public sector to ensure there are enough to go around.

If there are always 19 bones and 20 dogs, it doesn't matter how good the dogs are at bone hunting. Blaming the dogs for a bone shortage is desperately unfair.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#705

Post by closeparen »

blihp wrote: post #548
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

A 10% margin also often doesn't tell the whole story of how they make their money. Nearly since its inception, a substantial portion of McDonald's long term profit came from the appreciation of the real estate the stores were built on. Operating a business on it just made it cash flow positive during the holding period. So it was essentially a REIT that happened to operate a fast food chain. Even for many mom-and-pop…

McDonalds is a franchise, isn’t it? Corporate doesn’t own the stores.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#706

Post by wonnage »

saddlerustle wrote: post #564
8note wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically, GDP has grown substantially with the owners receiving nearly all the benefits. Raising the minimum wage is unlikely to affect employment much because of just how profitable companies are today Mind you I think a better tslternative to a specific minimum wage is to have a guaranteed government job at a specific wage. That sets a bar that all labourers have an option, while some lower paying jobs can sti…

Corporate profits as a fraction of GDP hasn't changed much.

Just remember that very sane corporation in the US does their very best to realize their profits outside of the US.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#707

Post by [deleted] »

closeparen wrote: post #705
blihp wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 10% margin also often doesn't tell the whole story of how they make their money. Nearly since its inception, a substantial portion of McDonald's long term profit came from the appreciation of the real estate the stores were built on. Operating a business on it just made it cash flow positive during the holding period. So it was essentially a REIT that happened to operate a fast food chain. Even for many mom-and-pop…

McDonalds is a franchise, isn’t it? Corporate doesn’t own the stores.

[deleted]

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#708

Post by caymanjim »

closeparen wrote: post #705
blihp wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 10% margin also often doesn't tell the whole story of how they make their money. Nearly since its inception, a substantial portion of McDonald's long term profit came from the appreciation of the real estate the stores were built on. Operating a business on it just made it cash flow positive during the holding period. So it was essentially a REIT that happened to operate a fast food chain. Even for many mom-and-pop…

McDonalds is a franchise, isn’t it? Corporate doesn’t own the stores.

Corporate owns 15% of ~36000 total stores, which it leases to franchisees.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#709

Post by caymanjim »

ehnto wrote: post #701
deburo wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If they honestly can't afford to pay a living wage It's not logical to kill businesses by arbitrarily raising the minimum wage. Do you think the people they employ are better off not working at all? These people may not have a decent enough salary, but they get to work as opposed to staying at home and degenerate (mentally and physically). I always thought the better solution is to help them financially in other way…

Please think about the holistic nature of your argument. The sum of it's parts essentially suggests that taxpayers should subsidize the employment costs of businesses, which is ridiculous.

Taxpayers already subsidize the employment costs, by supplementing low salaries and lack of benefits via welfare programs, tax rebates, lower tax rates, subsidized healthcare, and countless other benefits. Walmart et al have externalized almost all of the true cost of labor to taxpayers.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#710

Post by pyuser583 »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

There’s another option: reducing hours of operation. Some hours are much more profitable than others.

That’s not necessarily bad for workers. It might mean holding more than one job, which is common in the food business.

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