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2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

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Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#701

Post by headeffects »

sudosysgen wrote: post #522
asimpletune wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question. Does the ISA, as a language, really matter? Or is it more a by product of who owns the ISA, eg intel sucks, arm is more liberally licensed. I used to work at intel, and no one I knew there thought ISA mattered at all. That’s just a few people though, so I’m curious if people think there’s something better or worse about the different ISAs as a technology in their own right, or if it’s more about the…

It really doesn't. AMD has essentially the same perf/watt coming in a few months. ISA doesn't change anything nowadays because it all gets decoded into a per-CPU specific actual instruction set anyways.

What does AMD have coming in a few months?

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#702

Post by harpratap »

dm319 wrote: post #620
taftster wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I think in the end, this is going to show just how bad monopolies (or near-monopolies) can be for innovation. These are super impressive results, just hoping that the rest of Apple (software, developer relations) can turn away from the draconian future they are currently heading.

What do you think this means for people who don't like Apple's business model? I don't want to be left behind on outdated hardware just because I'm a Linux user.

Apple isn't the only ARM vendor. Nuvia, Ampere and even Qualcomm will start shipping good ARM chips hopefully soon

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#703

Post by thamer »

dharma1 wrote: post #644
kllrnohj wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing reddit reports of gaming throttling more quickly than that, which would make sense since the GPU is going to sit at or near 100% pretty easily with a game and you'll still be seeing a decent CPU load.

link?

https://youtu.be/XQ6vX6nmboU?t=115

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#704

Post by tachyonbeam »

coldtea wrote: post #383
AsyncAwait wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you are not the ultimate decider of what to do with the machine. If you owned it, you could do anything outside of harm.

The whole concept of the machine is to be bought and optimized for running macOS.

Apple could optimize their hardware and software without making the machine locked down. Those are somewhat orthogonal issues.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#705

Post by car »

bch wrote: post #698
car wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth mentioning is the insane and disruptive technology making TSMC's 5nm possible. ASML and it's suppliers have built a machine[1] that has a sci-fi feel to it. It took decades to get it all right, from the continous laser source to the projection optics for the extreme ultraviolet light[2]. This allowed photolithography to jump from 193nm light to 13.5nm, very close to x-rays. The CO2 laser powering the EUV light…

That’s amazing - now I have questions. They say “decades in the making” - when did it first become viable, and then how long to master the process and become confident enough to mass produce consumer goods from it? I’d love to see a timeline w milestones.

Apparently first EUV prototypes were shipped to TSMC for R&D in 2010(!).

ASML has a timeline of the company and technology development[1].

[1]https://www.asml.com/en/company/about-asml/history

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#706

Post by saagarjha »

1over137 wrote: post #643
breakfastduck wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Passively cooled first generation macbook air chip isn't quite as fast as an absolute monster grade PC Ryzen chip on its 3rd generation. Color me shocked. I think you're just trying your hardest to convince yourself that these chips aren't competitive.

The M1 is only "first generation" because they called it M1 instead of A15. :)

It’s really very similar to the A14 chips.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#707

Post by ksec »

alwillis wrote: post #659
ksec wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Qualcomm was never far behind. And the 64bit ARM Apple chip surprised even ARM themselves. As ARM didn't even have a reference Cortex design out when Apple shipped their first 64 bit SoC. ( Apple was part of early member programme ) And no one thought they will need 64bit so early. ( Which was also true at the time ). Qualcomm has to optimise for cost, for the same Die Space Qualcomm already includes a Modem, while A…

Apple's first 64-bit SoC was the A7 in 2013—7 years ago. True, the modem is separate but Apple's SoC has the GPU, Neural Engine and other stuff. Qualcomm seemingly has never caught up when it comes to raw performance.

>Apple's SoC has the GPU, Neural Engine and other stuff.

That is the same with Qualcomm.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#708

Post by saagarjha »

spacenick88 wrote: post #563
CapriciousCptl wrote: post #4

From the article's conclusion... "The M1 undisputedly outperforms the core performance of everything Intel has to offer, and battles it with AMD’s new Zen3, winning some, losing some. And in the mobile space in particular, there doesn’t seem to be an equivalent in either ST or MT performance – at least within the same power budgets." This is the first in-depth review validating all the hype. Assuming the user experie…

As for kernel panics, with iOS likely sharing most if not all of it's kernel code with macOS I'd be surprised if Apple hasn't had an iPhone macOS build since before they released the first iPhone.

iPhoneOS was basically Mac OS X.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#709

Post by least »

michaelt wrote: post #334
nsxwolf wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why they would do this. If they just want to sell iPads, they could do that tomorrow. Just release XCode for Linux and Windows so that devs can create iOS apps and call it a day. Obviously they still intend for the Mac to remain a general purpose computer or they wouldn't be putting this much effort into it.

When GiorgioG speaks of a closed, iOS-style ecosystem, I don't think they mean literally running iOS on laptops. Rather, they foresee OS X becoming a system where you can't run programs that haven't received Apple's blessing and been brought through Apple's store. Blessings that will be denied to software like youtube-dl. As to why they would do this? A combination of the good of most users, who will enjoy protection…

People have been fear mongering this for a long time now without anything to show for it. People see the writing on the wall but honestly I don't really buy it.

They added System Integrity Protection (SIP) in El Capitan in the name of security which clamped down heavily on what people could do with their system, limiting hacks that allowed for modification of system applications, etc. Outwardly you can claim that this is a sign of them making it so people don't have control over their system. The reality is that it can be turned off by anyone that cares enough to do so.

They added checks to inhibit installation of unverified executables from the web. If you don't have a signature from Apple, you can't run it. That surely means they're taking control, right? Well, except that it doesn't actually stop you from installing the software.

They keep adding checks to inhibit users from endangering their system (such as much more granular permissions in Mojave/Catalina), but they have not made it impossible to execute any arbitrary code you want on their system if you want to.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#710

Post by sudosysgen »

headeffects wrote: post #701
sudosysgen wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't. AMD has essentially the same perf/watt coming in a few months. ISA doesn't change anything nowadays because it all gets decoded into a per-CPU specific actual instruction set anyways.

What does AMD have coming in a few months?

Zen 3 on laptops. So instead of Zen 2 on 7nm, laptops should get Zen 3 on 5nm, which is both a 10% uArch clock increase, a 15+% IPC increase, and a die shrink.

Basically, laptop chips that should be around 35% faster and use less power.

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