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No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

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Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#701

Post by NathanKP »

toast42 wrote: post #683
gkoberger wrote: post #31

I think this is fair for him to do, and well within his rights. He’s clearly frustrated. I wish there was a better way for open source projects to solicit donations. It’s hard to get your boss to pay for software; it’s extra hard when you get no additional value. I feel like open source would have more luck if Issues could have attached bounties. I may not think to donate to faker.js, however as someone with access t…

Looks like they lost all their possessions in an apartment fire: https://twitter.com/marak/status/1320465599319990272

Additionally the FBI were called and Marak was charged with reckless endangerment for the potentially explosive bomb making materials found on the premise, including potassium nitrate, magnesium powder, sulfur powder, copper powder, aluminum powder, hobby fuse and mixing cups, and books about military explosives, booby traps. (https://abc7ny.com/suspicious-package-queens-astoria-fire/64...)

So yeah "seems something is going on with him"

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#702

Post by Igelau »

yiyus wrote: post #122
tlarkworthy wrote: post #25

I am not religious but labourers in the vineyard stuck with me from school: The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble(D) against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they…

> that was the terms set The terms do not include free support. Basically, Marak is just saying he won't go back to the vineyard to work for free, but he will if he gets paid a fair salary. Else, the landowner will have to search for new workers.

It's a parable wherein the landowner is the Christian god, the work of the vineyard is the work of his will, and the denarius is salvation. It doesn't have anything to do with people getting paid fairly, it has to do with the Christian god's generosity disrupting notions of fairness.

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#703

Post by hinkley »

DrAwesomeClaws2 wrote: post #677
hinkley wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you release under MIT and you don't have a plan for public speaking, or consulting then you have no way to profit financially from that work. Used to be that you could offer hosted solutions, but if you become too high profile the Cloud providers will have a 'better' offering. Too many of us still fall into this Calvinistic work ethic that if we just put in the work the rewards will appear through some ineffable m…

The work is the reward.

We don't talk about the people who agree with you, because it doesn't come up.

Enjoyment of something can be substantially reduced when you find out someone else is taking all the credit for your work, however. And the transition can be a bit shocking. In many cases these are probably the people we are talking about, in other cases it's someone discovering that they don't have the luxury of doing this passion project for free anymore.

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#704

Post by orthecreedence »

jgilias wrote: post #163

So you've made something cool and it's time to release it. These seem to be the options at hand: 1. Release under a permissive license (MIT, BSD) and: - Have everyone and their grandma use it. - Die poor 2. Release under a copyleft license (GPL) and: - No company is going to use or contribute to it, unless they can somehow clearly separate it from what they see as their intellectual property. Or just hide it where no…

[flagged]

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#706

Post by andi999 »

derefr wrote: post #678
andi999 wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think he 'deserves' to get paid. It is nice if he gets paid, but I dont even see a moral obligation (not speaking of legal). I mean the idea of gpl2 (at least from linus and my perspective) is nicely laid out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaKIZ7gJlRU Paraphrasing:'I give you my sourcecode and if you change it and give the software away, please give me the changes'. For MIT license (which Marak choose…

Everyone deserves to get paid (in the sense of moral desert; i.e. people "deserve" human rights.) You don't have a personal obligation to pay them, though. Solving that discrepancy isn't going to be done in an HN comment; it's the Great Work of capitalist statecraft.

I agree he deserves to get paid like everybody else, but not because of this work he did. Unfortunately not all societies do that, so uually the common route to get paid is to get (a) work (contract), somebody is willing to pay for.

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#707

Post by wolfgke »

stonemetal12 wrote: post #504
wolfgke wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I am aware, a usual term of art is also "shared source" (this term was in particular used by Microsoft in the past).

My understanding was "shared source" was MS's particular license for "source available" not their term for the practice.

"Shared source" was an umbrella term by Microsoft for its licenses that allows access to the source code. Among these licenses were ones that were also open-source licenses, but also ones that were not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shared_Source_Ini... lists the following licenses:

- Microsoft Public License (Ms-PL) [open source]

- Microsoft Reciprocal License (Ms-RL) [open source]

- Microsoft Limited Public License (Ms-LPL) [not open source]

- Microsoft Limited Reciprocal License (Ms-LRL) [not open source]

- Microsoft Reference Source License (Ms-RSL) [not open source]

So, "shared source" was clearly not a particular license by MS.

Also, at that time, Microsoft tried to establish this term (by its Shared Source Initiative) for the general concept of "source code is available, but the license is not necessarily open source".

In the linked Wikipedia article, one can read on this:

"However, former OSI president Michael Tiemann considers the phrase 'Shared Source' itself to be a marketing term created by Microsoft. He argues that it is 'an insurgent term that distracts and dilutes the Open Source message by using similar-sounding terms and offering similar-sounding promises'."

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#708

Post by jlokier »

shadowgovt wrote: post #646
pradn wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the plan is to abandon the project? It will work some individuals, but we need something more sustainable for the industry.

If the project is valuable, someone will step in to maintain it. If nobody does, its value didn't justify the cost of maintenance.

Perhaps all the people using it value it enough that they might pay (if they had no other choice to keep it), but might not be able to maintain it.

In that situation, it's valued but it only gets maintained if someone offers to do the maintenance for pay.

If the current maintainer is stepping down from the project if they aren't paid, but willing to continue for pay, it makes sense for them to let everyone else know they are willing to continue if paid, doesn't it?

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#709

Post by d33lio »

john_moscow wrote: post #675
jgilias wrote: post #163

So you've made something cool and it's time to release it. These seem to be the options at hand: 1. Release under a permissive license (MIT, BSD) and: - Have everyone and their grandma use it. - Die poor 2. Release under a copyleft license (GPL) and: - No company is going to use or contribute to it, unless they can somehow clearly separate it from what they see as their intellectual property. Or just hide it where no…

That's because you need to understand the difference between a project and a product. If you want your product to succeed, it must target decision-makers with a budget to buy your license, and it must make enough difference to them to justify the costs. Most software libraries aren't products. They target other software developers who are not responsible for allocating funds. Furthermore, if there wasn't a library, m…

This comment is golden! Most qualms on indie hackers and similar sites could be quickly settled with this line of reasoning. Not growing fast enough? -> buy ads -> "but I don't make enough money to spend on ads" -> is it really a product then? -> etc...

It's always blown me away (as a person of average intelligence relative to many on HN) that brilliant people who can actually conjure up entire libraries, frameworks etc fall short when it comes to understanding how to convert code into $$$ or anticipating how users will see the same concepts.

Re: No More Free Work from Marak: Pay Me or Fork This

#710

Post by nineplay »

oakesm9 wrote: post #691
nineplay wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an article that makes the rounds now and again on HN about a engineer who wrote a widely used opensource tool and then didn't get past the Google interview process. FAANGs are still more interested in seeing if you can solve the Knapsack Problem then seeing that you can write good, maintainable code.

It was the developer behind the macOS package manager Homebrew https://twitter.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768

Sheesh I'd forgotten - he's right, everyone does use that tool. He backed off on a bit but the point still remains, I'm sure he's a better engineer than half of google.

I wonder if they asked Pike and Thompson to invert a binary tree.

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-logic-behind-Google-rejectin...

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