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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#701

Post by grahamburger »

M4v3R wrote: post #447
criddell wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it's good for consumers, sure. At one point AT&T was required to allow consumers to buy and connect their own handsets rather than only allowing them to rent from AT&T. Isn't that similar?

> Isn't that similar? No, what you described was a simple change in how the product was distributed. Forcing Apple to engineer a way to add 3rd party app stores on their platform would require significant engineering effort from them and changing their operating system internals significantly.

How much engineering does Google do to make sure F-droid or Amazon App Store works android? I would be surprised if it's very much.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#702

Post by leetcrew »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #465
simion314 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most users, however, would have a way worse experience using their phone if they were given this option, because a non-trivial percentage of them would follow the tutorials online provided to them by malware authors to install their malware. I think Apple fans exagerrate when they say that most users are so "inexperienced" to get taken advantage off. - this number of completly inexperienced user is not proven to be…

> this number of completly inexperienced user is not proven to be as large, if you look at Android or OSX you don't see 51% of users having malware on their machine > "protecting" an unknown small number of users by limiting the rest makes no sense, what makes more sense is MONEY For creating policies 51% is a bad measure. Its inherently biased to be regressive. Setting policies at 51% disproportionately hurts the bo…

I absolutely resent the implication that protecting the bottom n% of gullible users is mutually exclusive with giving power users the access they desire. they seem to do a decent job of it on their OSX machines, so why not iOS?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#703

Post by lern_too_spel »

judge2020 wrote: post #568
lern_too_spel wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of steps and warnings required to unlock the bootloader on an Android device is so large that I have never heard of anybody being tricked into it. On the other hand, iOS is so rife with rootable vulnerabilities that it's becoming too cheap to meter.

Replace tricked with lured. Try searching 'free vbucks apk android 6' on youtube then go to page 3 of results or click recently uploaded.

You cannot unlock your bootloader with an APK. This is the process for unlocking the bootloader: https://www.androidjungles.com/unlock-bootloader-using-fastb...

No amount of luring is going to make somebody go through that only to have their device data completely wiped as the warning clearly says.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#704

Post by boring_twenties »

mrguyorama wrote: post #645
fanatic2pope wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Support for Epic never took root on HN because techno-entrepreneurs see themselves not as mere fart app developers but as temporarily embarrassed billionaire monopolists.

I support opening up Apple's ecosystem, but I don't support Epic. They say they want to give user's the freedom to choose, yet they took a video game I purchased away from my chosen storefront (rocket league being taken off of steam) Where's my user choice Epic?

Google does the same shit. I bought Shadowrun: Dragonfall from the Play Store and it was later removed without any warning or trace. Not coincidentally, that was the last money I will ever spend on the Play Store.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#705

Post by hnra »

threeseed wrote: post #668
fanatic2pope wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Support for Epic never took root on HN because techno-entrepreneurs see themselves not as mere fart app developers but as temporarily embarrassed billionaire monopolists.

Support for Epic never took root anywhere. Because everyone can see Epic for what they are: a billion dollar company who wants their own monopoly. Do you think Fortnite will be available on competing stores ?

> Do you think Fortnite will be available on competing stores?

The play store seems to indicate this to be the case. Epic released Fortnite on both their own store, and the play store no?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#706

Post by damnyou »

rmah wrote: post #618
damnyou wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For micropayments per stream, presumably.

Blockchain is not suitable for micropayments. The computing resource requirements are many orders of magnitude too high.

A proof of work blockchain isn't suitable, but proof of work is one of many ways to reach distributed consensus.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#707

Post by damnyou »

asou wrote: post #454
damnyou wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, what the fuck? It's not "on me". It's on Apple to make it easy to cancel even if I no longer have an Apple product or Windows PC on hand. Borrow a friend's PC? Spin up an AWS Windows instance? Seriously, WTF?! I can cancel my Android subscriptions from anywhere with a web browser.

It's not an intentional trick to force you to keep paying. The vast vast majority of people have access to a Windows PC or Apple product. How you ended up in this edge case I'll never know. To take this to it's logical conclusion, what if you don't run JavaScript on your browsers. Would they also need to give you a cancelation page which doesn't require JavaScript.

Of course you should be able to cancel without requiring JavaScript.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#709

Post by temp667 »

spideymans wrote: post #677
temp667 wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple as an ecosystem that emphasizes trust. They believe they can charge a premium for this. Whether you think this should be "dispelled forever" is up to you - feel free to market your carriers phone however you want. The app store, as the method that pricing, refunds, subscriptions etc are handled, is part of this story of trust or lack of trust. And yes - apple does review use of permission by developers upon sub…

>What is incredible is that developers on HN seem to have no clue why people actually like what apple does. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair.

So true. They are so busy optimizing their dark patterns they don't understand why - in the big picture - clear pricing on subscriptions, easy cancellations etc - helps the entire ecosystem and brand. It's the tragedy of the commons I think.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#710

Post by yazaddaruvala »

_qulr wrote: post #423
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The problem is regardless of it being either side of Hanlon's razor, malice or stupidity, I have built trust with Apple and prefer the centralized Apple (over the decentralized dev-houses of the world) to do its best to ensure neither malice nor stupidity in the product I use most throughout the day.

> I have built trust with Apple and prefer the centralized Apple (over the decentralized dev-houses of the world) IMO this is a false dichotomy. Epic and Spotify are not the size of Apple, but they're still giants compared to little indie developers. I trust indie devs way more than any of the BigCos. It's just natural: the fewer customers you have, and the less market power you have, the more you care, the more you…

I appreciate this sentiment, but I've lived through too many of these transitions to agree. e.g. Blizzard, Google, YouTube, Curse, Sun Microsystems, Zynga, Minecraft, Occulus.

Indie developers / startups either become the size of Epic and Spotify, or get bought by companies the size of Epic, Spotify and Apple.

Find me the indie developers / startups that cannot be "corrupted" (converted?) and I'll invest as soon as they IPO.

Meanwhile, there are some companies that make it their business model to build trust at scale. Apple, Valve, Nintendo, Microsoft (exclusively for enterprise clients) are a few great examples.

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