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De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

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Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#701

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

briandear wrote: post #220
bjourne wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on a few demos that turned violent. Among them the famous one when George Bush decided to pay a visit. In all cases , the organizers wanted to cooperate with the police. They knew who were in the "autonomous bloc" (troublemakers) and would have gladly helped the police zone in on them. In all cases the police didn't care and charged peaceful and violent demonstrators alike. I find it very odd that the polic…

> I find it very odd that the police still cannot after all these years and with all development in surveillance tech distinguish between peaceful demonstrators and rioters. One could almost believe that they have no interest in making that distinction. I have been in the middle of protests when I worked for Reuters and the difference between peaceful and violent is very tiny. I was in the no-man’s land between the K…

> It is fascinating to me how left wing protests seem to frequently degrade into violence.

This is just you being selective in how you view things due to your personal politics. I live in Portland and for the last couple summers we had to deal with Joey Gibson and his band of goons repeatedly attempting to incite violence at protests. It's a core view among modern white supremacists that they will rise to power atop a race war that they instigate. And let's not even start talking about the 2A crowd that shows up to everything armed in an attempt to intimidate people.

It's a bit much to ignore all that just because you wanna take a jab at left leaning politics you disagree with.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#702

Post by 0xBA5ED »

ashtonkem wrote: post #700
0xBA5ED wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They all didn't kneel on the man's neck.

Yes, that’s why I’m focusing on the word “accessory”. Don’t move the goal posts.

I haven't. This whole conversation has been about whether or not the other officers present should be arrested and charged as accessories to murder. I said it wasn't clear.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#703

Post by kelvin0 »

mc32 wrote: post #692
kelvin0 wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. There exists an asymmetry in the dynamics of protesters vs police during a protest. Very simple: Anyone can be 'planted' in a group of protesters to start stirring up trouble (agent-provocateur). Then the police have 'justification' to use whatever amount of force they think is required. On the other hand, it's practically impossible for a regular citizen to be embedded into a riot police response unit. Add…

People also can counter plant and plant someone to feign being a first level plant to be able to point out that the violence was instigated by a plant. Both sides can and do do that.

This changes nothing to the end result. One side (Police) still has a major advantage.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#704

Post by ashtonkem »

0xBA5ED wrote: post #702
ashtonkem wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that’s why I’m focusing on the word “accessory”. Don’t move the goal posts.

I haven't. This whole conversation has been about whether or not the other officers present should be arrested and charged as accessories to murder. I said it wasn't clear.

You tried to change the standard to “all the officers didn’t kneel on his neck”, I just called you out on it.

I do believe they should be arrested for accessory and face a trial by jury. It’s your right to think to the contrary, but your rationalizations about why they were willing to stand by and watch something that has deeply shocked the conscious of the whole nation is both disturbing and unconvincing.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#705

Post by yters »

ikeyany wrote: post #696
yters wrote: post #603

i wonder if the rioters realize that violence in the streets is exactly how dictators gain power

Rioters don't care about the goals of the protestors.

i've conversed with a couple of people on HN who seem to think rioting is aligned, and in fact more effective than peaceful protests

they weren't downvoted, whereas my counter comments were

so, it seems this opinion that violence is the way forward is not the minority position

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#706

Post by 0xBA5ED »

ashtonkem wrote: post #704
0xBA5ED wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't. This whole conversation has been about whether or not the other officers present should be arrested and charged as accessories to murder. I said it wasn't clear.

You tried to change the standard to “all the officers didn’t kneel on his neck”, I just called you out on it. I do believe they should be arrested for accessory and face a trial by jury. It’s your right to think to the contrary, but your rationalizations about why they were willing to stand by and watch something that has deeply shocked the conscious of the whole nation is both disturbing and unconvincing.

"all the officers didn't kneel on his neck" doesn't "change the standard" whatever that means. It's well within what was being discussed.

Anyway, I don't know why they were willing to do that. I'm not them. I don't know what they knew. That's the point. My OP was disputing the assertion that they knowingly stood there with the intent to allow their colleague to kill him and should be arrested on that basis, because it isn't clear.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#707

Post by andreygrehov »

michaelt wrote: post #531
0xBA5ED wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The officer responsible was arrested and charged with murder. The other officers on the scene were all fired. Can you explain to me what the protest is about?

The officer responsible was arrested, yes. But in the meantime, we now see videos of cops following humvees through residential neighbourhoods and shooting at unarmed people on their own property. As a result, people are more concerned about police brutality than they were a month ago, rather than less

Of course, because there are at least 5 types of protesters, all with different goals. There is no way to control this salad peacefully.

1. Peaceful protesters against police brutality (including peaceful Black Lives Matter protesters).

2. The radical wing of the Black Lives Matter, who believe that the time of peaceful protests is over and that the only way to change the situation is to use violent methods, especially directed against the police.

3. Marauders and looters: who leverage the protests to rob shops, destroy and set fire to cars and buildings. These people do not give a shit about any other groups.

4. Anarchists and Antifa: their goal is to stir up arbitrary rule, to destroy the system using extremely violent methods. They are catalysts of chaos and their main goal is to create chaos that will lead to the arbitrariness and anarchy of the crowd.

5. White supremacists and extreme right-wing radical groups. They're catalysts for chaos. To make things a little simpler, their goal is to "anti-advertising" any African-American civil rights movement against police brutality and racial riots in the United States.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#708

Post by aspenmayer »

bjourne wrote: post #138
beloch wrote: post #78

We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that. The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organize…

I've been on a few demos that turned violent. Among them the famous one when George Bush decided to pay a visit. In all cases , the organizers wanted to cooperate with the police. They knew who were in the "autonomous bloc" (troublemakers) and would have gladly helped the police zone in on them. In all cases the police didn't care and charged peaceful and violent demonstrators alike. I find it very odd that the polic…

Life imitates art when it comes to tech; it's a hydra of an ouroboros[1] eating its own tails with its many heads. We did this to ourselves?

It’s already happening in India and China. I’m sure it’s happening here too, with an added startup component with the example of Clearview AI. The big companies get in on the action too:

‘There are many companies that offer facial recognition products and services, including Amazon, Microsoft and FaceFirst. Those companies all need access to enormous databases of photos to improve the accuracy of their matching technology. But while most facial recognition algorithms are trained on well-established, publicly circulating datasets — some of which have also faced criticism for taking people’s photos without their explicit consent — Ever is different in using its own customers’ photos to improve its commercial technology.‘[2]

'In the 1998 Hollywood thriller Enemy of the State, an innocent man (played by Will Smith) is pursued by a rogue spy agency that uses the advanced satellite “Big Daddy” to monitor his every move. The film — released 15 years before Edward Snowden blew the whistle on a global surveillance complex — has achieved a cult following.'

It was, however, much more than just prescient: it was also an inspiration, even a blueprint, for one of the most powerful surveillance technologies ever created. So contends technology writer and researcher Arthur Holland Michel in his compelling book Eyes in the Sky. He notes that a researcher (unnamed) at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California who saw the movie at its debut decided to “explore — theoretically, at first — how emerging digital-imaging technology could be affixed to a satellite” to craft something like Big Daddy, despite the “nightmare scenario” it unleashes in the film. Holland Michel repeatedly notes this contradiction between military scientists’ good intentions and a technology based on a dystopian Hollywood plot.'

'In 2006, the cinematically inspired research was picked up by DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which is tasked with US military innovation (D. Kaiser Nature 543, 176–177; 2017). DARPA funded the building of an aircraft-mounted camera with a capacity of almost two billion pixels. The Air Force had dubbed the project Gorgon Stare, after the monsters of penetrating gaze from classical Greek mythology, whose horrifying appearance turned observers to stone. (DARPA called its programme Argus, after another mythical creature: a giant with 100 eyes.)'[3]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros

[2] https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/millions-people-upload...

[3] [3] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01792-5

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#709

Post by ashtonkem »

0xBA5ED wrote: post #706
ashtonkem wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You tried to change the standard to “all the officers didn’t kneel on his neck”, I just called you out on it. I do believe they should be arrested for accessory and face a trial by jury. It’s your right to think to the contrary, but your rationalizations about why they were willing to stand by and watch something that has deeply shocked the conscious of the whole nation is both disturbing and unconvincing.

"all the officers didn't kneel on his neck" doesn't "change the standard" whatever that means. It's well within what was being discussed. Anyway, I don't know why they were willing to do that. I'm not them. I don't know what they knew. That's the point. My OP was disputing the assertion that they knowingly stood there with the intent to allow their colleague to kill him and should be arrested on that basis, because i…

“I don’t know why they were willing to do that”.

That’s why we have trials by jury, to determine guilt even though we can’t read minds.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#710

Post by thundergolfer »

ReticentVole wrote: post #572
asenna wrote: post #215

I highly recommend checking out Trevor Noah's recent video on the protests - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb4Bg8mu2aM He mentions how society is at its core a contract on how to engage with one another. Everything we do is in some form conforming to that contract and when this contract is violated (like the stores being looted and vandalized), it angers you. However, to the people who're really affected by this is…

If you want a more conservative perspective, from Black Pilled: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnuJz174H9s

Ok I went in and watched the video. I found nothing of value.

He called Trump the “fake right”, which makes me think this guy isn’t some trad-catholic conservative. Is he the conspiratorial conservative type?

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