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3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

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Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#701

Post by tnel77 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #367
mrkramer wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany lost 2 World Wars and today it has greater GDP than UK by $1 trillion. It doesn't matter who is hit harder it matters whose economy is more efficient and has more innovations.

Not much comparable. Just a random difference - Germany was quickly rebuilt because allies want it to be rebuilt, and not let impoverished and destroyed like after WWI. We know how that ended... When talking about efficiency, I think China might have the upper hand now - they are much more effective in discipline, they don't mind suffering things that are unacceptable for us, and look where they are with COVID - ahea…

>>West looks pathetically weak and ineffective

That’s what happens when your people have almost no rights and you can literally weld their building doors shut. Their strength comes at a cost, and it’s the freedom of their people.

Edit: Also, China only matters because we allow them to matter. As soon as we wise up and let other countries start making our toys and phones, China will be screwed.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#702

Post by dang »

jahaja wrote: post #545
big_chungus wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you get that conclusion? You think crashing the economy won't hurt people? > Shame on you. Seriously?

Yes, seriously. You're willing to sacrifice a million people to keep your house of cards economy going instead of fixing the root cause. To add insult to injury you want to shrink the state, thus collective resources, even more and calling every citizen of the US welfare queens? What the hell? This is some fundamentalist "the cause justify the means" bullshit. An economy that requires 1 million in human sacrifice dur…

> You're willing to sacrifice a million people to keep your house of cards economy going

This breaks the site guidelines, which include:

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

I realize the GP comment was provocative but taking this big a step into total flamewar makes things clearly worse. Please don't do that here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#703

Post by dang »

big_chungus wrote: post #621
jahaja wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, seriously. You're willing to sacrifice a million people to keep your house of cards economy going instead of fixing the root cause. To add insult to injury you want to shrink the state, thus collective resources, even more and calling every citizen of the US welfare queens? What the hell? This is some fundamentalist "the cause justify the means" bullshit. An economy that requires 1 million in human sacrifice dur…

[flagged]

Please don't do flamewars on HN. It's not what this site is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#704

Post by jahaja »

dang wrote: post #702
jahaja wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, seriously. You're willing to sacrifice a million people to keep your house of cards economy going instead of fixing the root cause. To add insult to injury you want to shrink the state, thus collective resources, even more and calling every citizen of the US welfare queens? What the hell? This is some fundamentalist "the cause justify the means" bullshit. An economy that requires 1 million in human sacrifice dur…

> You're willing to sacrifice a million people to keep your house of cards economy going This breaks the site guidelines, which include: " Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. " I realize the GP comment was provocative but taking this big a step into total flamewar makes things clearly worse. Please don't do that…

Surely some form of social shunning is required for a healthy community? There's limits.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#705

Post by dang »

jahaja wrote: post #704
dang wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're willing to sacrifice a million people to keep your house of cards economy going This breaks the site guidelines, which include: " Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. " I realize the GP comment was provocative but taking this big a step into total flamewar makes things clearly worse. Please don't do that…

Surely some form of social shunning is required for a healthy community? There's limits.

Maybe, but if you're going to defend the health of the community, you need to do exemplify its norms (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html), not violate them, while doing so. Otherwise it seems like you're attacking for petty reasons, such as personal or ideological animosity.

It isn't easy. The mind likes to take the experience of being right as an opportunity to also vent surplus emotion or aggression. To catch oneself doing this and forego the satisfaction is not something we do instinctively. Surprisingly, though, the trivial genre of internet comments turns out to be a good place for practice (and lord knows we can all use it).

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#706

Post by jahaja »

dang wrote: post #705
jahaja wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely some form of social shunning is required for a healthy community? There's limits.

Maybe, but if you're going to defend the health of the community, you need to do exemplify its norms ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ), not violate them, while doing so. Otherwise it seems like you're attacking for petty reasons, such as personal or ideological animosity. It isn't easy. The mind likes to take the experience of being right as an opportunity to also vent surplus emotion or aggression…

Fair enough. I disagree however that the health of a community will always fall within normal courtesy bounds.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#708

Post by dang »

jahaja wrote: post #706
dang wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but if you're going to defend the health of the community, you need to do exemplify its norms ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ), not violate them, while doing so. Otherwise it seems like you're attacking for petty reasons, such as personal or ideological animosity. It isn't easy. The mind likes to take the experience of being right as an opportunity to also vent surplus emotion or aggression…

Fair enough. I disagree however that the health of a community will always fall within normal courtesy bounds.

The problem is that when people leave those bounds, they all-too-easily feel that they're doing it for principled reasons, and this is almost always false. They may not feel it, but it comes through acutely to others—especially to those on the side being attacked, who then feel entitled to react in kind. This is how we get a downward spiral. Each reacts to the shadow of the other, which appears as a kind of demon [1], and fails to see their own, and therefore feels justified and righteous. "He's causing the problem; I'm simply reacting." It's astonishing how often that comes up even in the mostly-trivial field of an internet forum.

I know these moderation comments can easily sound like "everybody please be civil and courteous", but that's not where we're coming from. Closer would be to say: be responsible for your shadow.

It's an open question how to process enough of one's shadow so that pure anger can cut like a sword in a clear way when called for. Most of us have work to do before we get there.

[1] more on 'demons' here: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#709

Post by jahaja »

dang wrote: post #708
jahaja wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. I disagree however that the health of a community will always fall within normal courtesy bounds.

The problem is that when people leave those bounds, they all-too-easily feel that they're doing it for principled reasons, and this is almost always false. They may not feel it, but it comes through acutely to others—especially to those on the side being attacked, who then feel entitled to react in kind. This is how we get a downward spiral. Each reacts to the shadow of the other, which appears as a kind of demon [1]…

Thanks for a well-thought-out answer. I do reckognise that there's indeed a snowball-effect. But perhaps the shadow that's being blocked, may be blocked for a reason. I'm not a moderator of any sort, so I know that my opinions are obviously biased. I do respect the effort in objectivity.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#710

Post by notyourday »

llampx wrote: post #629
notyourday wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is going to be much worse. This is the first week when the managers/companies started to pay attention to what is happening. Small companies are going to lay people off this week/next week. Mass layoffs take time as a lot of states have something like a WARN act. One should also remember that most of tipped restaurant industry gets tips on credit cards which are included in the next weekly/bi-weekly paychecks, whi…

In an ironic twist of fate, Uber Eats might become the stronger part of the business when ridership is down but food delivery is up. My friend who is an Uber driver tells me that's what's happening in his area, in California.

That's because people still think this will be a couple of week long speed bump. Cooking at home means 10%-25% of the restaurant cost.
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