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Richard M. Stallman resigns

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Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#701

Post by washadjeffmad »

colechristensen wrote: post #652
marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

There are a chain of media reports which inaccurately portray what Stallman was saying. But look past that into what was happening. Stallman was trying to defend Minsky who had sex with someone, a teenager, nearly 60 years younger than him on a billionaire's private island. There isn't an imaginable circumstance where what happened there was not, even in the best possible light, incredibly creepy. His intellectual ar…

Stallman wasn't defending Minsky, he was explaining why Minsky didn't need any defense with the evidence as presented. That Epstein instructed an underage to have sex does not mean that she did.

RMS points out that she did not ever say that she and Minksy had sex, although the prosecutor implied it, and there was a witness account that Minsky declined and warned someone else about what happened during the event. Pointing this out should not be a problem.

So please look past the media's witch hunt and into what's actually been said.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#702

Post by roguecoder »

marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

It is not “difficulties communicating with the wider world” when he only hit on women, he only gave women pleasure cards, he only sexualised women in his talks, and he not only refused to take feedback on that behavior, he actively corcumvented any clear rules he was given. He was not acting in good faith.

If he had cared about his political movement more than his dick we wouldn’t be here, but here we are.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#703

Post by colechristensen »

Guthur wrote: post #699

Anyone who has actually read the email thread and considers it a defence of sexual assault, the topic of the thread, is as intellectually bankrupt as the media witch hunts rms was warning about and fell victim to. We should be all concerned that media witch hunts like this can in act such results. It is abhorrent that any discussion that triggers a progressive dominated media can destroy people's lives.

I read it.

There was some irrelevant quibbling about how accusations are worded.

Then there was the speculation that the seventeen year old girl who is accusing his 73 year old friend of a sex crime would have appeared willing in the exchange with the implication that this apparent willingness made the situation not Minsky's fault.

Doesn't matter if it didn't happen, defending statutory rape like that is really inappropriate, and with a ~60 year ago gap it doesn't really matter about the details. It was a very creepy situation and indefensible.

Stallman was defending it, it wasn't just some intellectual problem with the wording of accusations.

Not a witch hunt, not a victimization of an innocent intellectually curious man, it was a measured and reasonable response to a very inappropriate conversation.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#704

Post by mzs »

jimrandomh wrote: post #36
nemothekid wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the counter argument for what Stallman wrote? I've seen that the "press is going too hard on him", but, honestly, I think they were justified. What is the "big difference" to you? If someone, personally, said to me that that someone be absolved of a crime, because the other, coerced, party was "willing" at that moment, I'd seriously question their morals.

Stallman wrote: "We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates." Here's the Vice headline ( https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9ke3ke/famed-computer-sci... ): Famed Computer Scientist Richard Stallman Described Epst…

RMS also wrote in April, “I disagree with some of what the article says about Epstein. Epstein is not, apparently, a pedophile, since the people he raped seem to have all been postpuberal,” and that alone disqualifies him from any position at a school or foundation.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#705

Post by dependenttypes »

colechristensen wrote: post #652
marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

There are a chain of media reports which inaccurately portray what Stallman was saying. But look past that into what was happening. Stallman was trying to defend Minsky who had sex with someone, a teenager, nearly 60 years younger than him on a billionaire's private island. There isn't an imaginable circumstance where what happened there was not, even in the best possible light, incredibly creepy. His intellectual ar…

> There are a chain of media reports which inaccurately portray what Stallman was saying.

Here for example https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/16/computer-scientist-richard...

It went from "defended Minsky", to "Victims Were ‘Entirely Willing’" to "defended Epstein".

> Stallman was trying to defend Minsky who had sex with someone

I think that he was just trying to be rational. But being rational against a lynching mob is not a good idea (and hasn't ever been in human history).

> but in the context of defending Minsky and in the venue they were wildly inappropriate and indefensible

Would you mind expanding on that? Say that someone claimed that Stalin drank the blood of his victims, would it be "inappropriate and indefensible" to try to debunk such a claim (and thus defend Stalin) in the process?

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#707

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

robocat wrote: post #120

Why does this feel like such a witch hunt? It is clear RMS was stunningly clueless to write anything about this, but surely we all know of similar engineers that would make a similar error? If everyone were held up to the same moral standard, we wouldn't have many people left in power! Just to be clear: I'm definitely not supporting hurting children (directly or indirectly) - I hope I'm not falling into the same tar…

> Why does this feel like such a witch hunt?

Because it is a witch hunt, in an age where witch-hunting is the most popular sport on the internet.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#708

Post by iliketocomplain »

big_chungus wrote: post #506
dexen wrote: post #447

Just as much as RMS was right[1], ESR was right[2]. The "cancel culture" is harming the free software movement by practicing human version of Microsoft's EEE[3]. The cancel culture enters the community, establishes interests groups, and starts knocking down prominent contributors. The demands are backed by angry crowds on social media rather than by contributions. It's time for us to defend each other, and to hold co…

The best example of this is the Ruby lang thread wrt the proposed code of conduct [0]. A "social justice warrior" who never contributed showed up, Coraline Emkhe, popped up and demanded Ruby adopt it. She has been ding this for years, going around to projects with which she is not involved and pressuring them to adopt a "contributor covenant" written by her which reflects her values first and foremost, and not necess…

Let's stick to the facts: he/him.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#709

Post by codyb »

colechristensen wrote: post #652
marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

There are a chain of media reports which inaccurately portray what Stallman was saying. But look past that into what was happening. Stallman was trying to defend Minsky who had sex with someone, a teenager, nearly 60 years younger than him on a billionaire's private island. There isn't an imaginable circumstance where what happened there was not, even in the best possible light, incredibly creepy. His intellectual ar…

Someone on Reddit says the deposition states that a bystander saw Minksy turn the 17 year old down.

However I can’t seem to find the original documents to verify that.

And reading too much about Giuffre, my god. The list of powerful people.

Epstein must of had blackmail on everyone.

Almost like a cartel leader in their nation, he made big philanthropic donations for good press and then kept many of the world’s richest and most powerful people under his thumb.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#710

Post by jarek-foksa »

It's worth mentioning that Stallman was appearing on Russia Today on a regular basis, usually to support the Russian narrative rather than to advocate the Free Software. If you are shilling for foreign oligarchs, expect the US disinformation machine to be used against you.
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