Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#701

Post by paulddraper » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 9:34 PM UTC

FussyZeus wrote: post #18

moresocialism wrote: post #4

The problem is that what constitutes politics? Guns shouldn't be political, who you have sex with shouldn't be political...but in our current climate, they are both considered political. ..and no debating? Most people at Google are shades of left. It sounds like they are just trying to drown out dissenting views once again.

Everything is political, and politics affect everything. If you think there are no politics in something it's likely that the politics involved in it are not close to you, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Identity isn't political, until you have one that isn't an accepted norm. Sexual orientation isn't political, until people want to deny you insurance over yours. Race isn't political, until people refuse to s…

You point out the truth: Everything controversial is political.

Political aka controversial topics should be avoided, unless they are relevant to work.

For example, unless you work at a real estate agency, it would be a poor idea to discuss federal or state law for racial guarantees around the sale of houses.

(Not that you can't discuss them; certainty do. But your workplace will make a poor forum.)

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#702

Post by crooked-v » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 9:36 PM UTC

username90 wrote: post #609

crooked-v wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The joke only works using math with a base of 9 or above and in a language where '8' and 'ate' are homophones, making the use of it biased against people who use other languages or counting systems.

A joke not being funny for one group doesn't mean that it is political. And if people are offended over not understanding a joke they would be offended over not understanding a sentence, meaning that every utterance ever is offensive since there is always people who doesn't speak your language. You are absurd here and only strengthened my view that people who say "everything is political" are just trying to sow disco…

We can see here more politics, as rejecting the interpretation of cultural elements as political is itself a political act of reinforcing the unexamined status quo.

Or, to reverse the situation: consider how you'd feel about things if you came into a workplace where everyone was telling jokes that only make sense if you know Chinese culture, and then if you mentioned that you felt left out, told you to stop complaining because you were only trying to 'sow discord'.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#703

Post by einhverfr » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 9:38 PM UTC

nickstinemates wrote: post #700

einhverfr wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is that the US has developed for various reasons (including a lack of discussing politics) a series of echo chambers and people don't connect politically beyond their echo chambers. In urban California, among software developers, you are likely to have one or two political views represented at most, and these represent a small racial and class-based cross-section of urban California. The first of…

> In urban California, among software developers, you are likely to have one or two political views represented at most, and these represent a small racial and class-based cross-section of urban California. I would argue that these are the only ones allowed.

In what sense allowed?

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#704

Post by redwall_hp » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 9:39 PM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #530

munk-a wrote: post #369

From the other side - if the world is on fire but a portion of the population thinks everything is just fine and dandy... is it appropriate for everyone to be politely quite until that portion comes to their own realization that the world is on fire? What if that never happens? I feel like the gun control debate is particularly relevant - whenever a shooting happens one side calmly says "This is unfortunate but unavo…

> This is a divide we need to resolve. The question is how much of that needs to be hammered out at work. Part of the problem may be that we've tied the workplace so intimately into our lives that it's cramming out activities vital to the civilization's health, like participation in local civic, religious, or charitable organizations, where such topics are generally not only welcome but often the rasion d'etre . Empl…

Or a 30 hour work week, which should be a legal mandate at this point.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#705

Post by ixtli » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 9:39 PM UTC

magashna wrote: post #167

FussyZeus wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is political, and politics affect everything. If you think there are no politics in something it's likely that the politics involved in it are not close to you, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Identity isn't political, until you have one that isn't an accepted norm. Sexual orientation isn't political, until people want to deny you insurance over yours. Race isn't political, until people refuse to s…

If you demanded the "privilege" of discussing politics at work, I'd promptly not hire/fire you.

If you consider the ability to discuss your conditions a privilege for a worker then I'm extremely happy I don't work or live anywhere near you.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#706

Post by linkregister » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 9:39 PM UTC

einhverfr wrote: post #453

devy wrote: post #428

This article makes it seem like debating politics is a good practices in workplace. It is NOT! Talking politics in workplace is not professional - different political opinions can wreck marriages, it can certainly wreck your job too! Just think about what if your boss is having a completely different political opinions than what you belief. Also any major corporations leaning one side of the political party would imm…

In the EU, freedom from discrimination on the basis of political opinion is considered a fundamental right, and is mentioned as such in the European Charter of Fundamental Rights. Private conversations about politics thus is entirely outside the scope of what the company is allowed to care about. Public comments, for example on global email lists, would be a different topic.

From the article:

> Google is also building a tool to let employees flag problematic internal posts and creating a team of moderators to monitor conversations on company chat boards, a spokeswoman said.

Though the article's headline is remarkably unclear, it's apparent that Google is focusing on the written word on company equipment.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#707

Post by ghaff » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 9:41 PM UTC

einhverfr wrote: post #600

manigandham wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every company becomes a "traditional" company because only traditional companies have survived. If alternative structures worked well then we would've seen them by now. Also I'm willing to be that a startup's lack of bureaucracy and momentum lets it experiment and move faster rather than just a carefree internal attitude. I've been in midsize companies on both sides of the free-culture spectrum and have never noticed…

Look up WL Gore and Associates. They have thrived on a very different company power structure. Or maybe their founder was right and the power structure wasn't different (he thought official power structures were not where the power was held, and therefore dispensed with them in order for unofficial power structures to more easily come to the fore). The problem is that you have to have some forms of effort in coordina…

>But I still look to Gore's insight that the real decisions are made around the water cooler and in the carpool van, and that is helpful.

So it assumes a very in-person culture for one thing.

Which is fine. But it basically excludes models based on people communicating in a more distributed way. And that probably strictly limits size and geographic diversity.

Nothing wrong with that. I can say I'm building a company in X location. I want everyone to come into the office and we're not looking to get big. That's fine. Among other things, you've described every local manufacturing, wtc. business.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#708

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 9:41 PM UTC

einhverfr wrote: post #572

sarbaz wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should people act in ways that disagree with their sense of justice? Should people be allowed to speak out against things that other people do, but that disagree with their sense of justice? I don't see how you can call it "arrogant" for people to act in accordance with their moral and ethical standards. We don't have the power to force the world do line up with our personal sense of justice. But we do have the power…

I think the problem is that the US has developed for various reasons (including a lack of discussing politics) a series of echo chambers and people don't connect politically beyond their echo chambers. In urban California, among software developers, you are likely to have one or two political views represented at most, and these represent a small racial and class-based cross-section of urban California. The first of…

> In urban California, among software developers, you are likely to have one or two political views represented at most

Centrist neoliberals, progressives, libertarians, and “I need active government support because private parties are not actively supporting me” anti-SJW meninists, among other political cliques, all seem to be vocally present in significant numbers among urban California developers.

I'm not sure which “one or two” viewpoints you were referring to.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#709

Post by cryptozeus » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 9:42 PM UTC

Am I the only one who thinks it’s totally okay for a Company to allow or not allow certain kinds of discussions within their offices. Why is this even a debate ? Companies are not run like democracies !! You dont loke the rule, change the company.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#710

Post by draw_down » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 9:43 PM UTC

orblivion wrote: post #469

devy wrote: post #428

This article makes it seem like debating politics is a good practices in workplace. It is NOT! Talking politics in workplace is not professional - different political opinions can wreck marriages, it can certainly wreck your job too! Just think about what if your boss is having a completely different political opinions than what you belief. Also any major corporations leaning one side of the political party would imm…

My dad is from Russia and he sees the American taboo about talking politics at work as just lame and pathetic. Like we're too sensitive or something. I think he may have even said it was just fine in the U.S. as well back in the 70s (when it was also okay to smoke in the office) but I'd have to check again. So I gotta wonder if this is generally true or if there are cultural factors.

My dad is from Baltimore and he was raised to believe that there are some topics not appropriate for polite company: politics and religion.