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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#701

Post by onli »

toyg wrote: post #667
CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

> because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply This actually happens in Europe, typically when authorities decide squatters should not be tolerated. TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN. If there is a demand for specific niches, a supply will eventually emerge, like it has for porn.

> TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN

If a CDN is necessary to support the site being a public platform that's not a given. This whole "A private company should be able to act like it pleases" that Cloudflare mirrors in their news is an ideological standpoint, not an absolute truth. It's certainly possible to see it differently: If a company becomes a public platform important for the public discourse or for the function of journalism, regulation and laws can limit what a company can do. Like Germany does with Facebook.

Edit: Thinking about this a bit more, I'm really frustrated with Cloudflare about this. With the announcement they are causing the political discourse after the massacre to be about free speech, while the one thing important here is gun control. This stuff happens in the US because the easy access to guns allows murderers to act like this. It does not matter whether 8chan falls now or whether it survives or whether the US limits their extreme stance on free speech as long the US society continues to accept that those massacres happen in favor of having guns available to everyone.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#703

Post by makomk »

blacklight86 wrote: post #525

What kind of free speech are we exactly advocating here? The freedom to spread cheap hate, fake news and bigotry against minorities? I'm sorry but moderating such offenses isn't a limitation to free speech. For the same reason why, if you start shouting nig or monkey to black people in a shopping mall, the police is likely to intervene and take you away - and I don't think that any sane person would argue that they'r…

Define "fake news". For instance, the Guardian ran an article last week "Facebook says it was 'not our role' to remove fake news during Australian election"[1] criticising Facebook for not removing claims that the Labor party would introduce a "death tax" they said they wouldn't. If you click through to the previous article[2], the supposed "misinformation" included posts quoting their statements that they wouldn't introduce a "death tax" and then arguing that they couldn't be trusted not to do it anyway. Should tech companies be expected to supress the idea that certain political parties can't be trusted to do what they promise (not all of them, obviously - I can't imagine this is meant to apply to Republicans or any of the Australian right-wing parties)? Because that is definitely something that's being pushed for in the name of fighting "fake news".

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jul/31/facebook-...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jun/08/it-fe...

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#704

Post by andygates »

Iv wrote: post #79

Tor's onion service will always there to provide hosting to the less popular ideas. The censorship-resistant network is there. Make sure to give it some love. Last time I checked, people were discussing how to murder, exchanging nazi manifestos and conspiracy theories. I was looking for anarchist discussions but I actually ended up having these on reddit. Don't get fooled by the current positioning of IT firms, it on…

This isn't about silencing the bad actors, it's about muffling them enough that they don't contaminate daily discourse. Fine: let them be on onion boards. We know de-platforming works.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#705

Post by throwaway-hn123 »

nextmemorandum wrote: post #643
kingkawn wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White supremacist terrorism cannot be directly ideologically challenged by our present political system in America because it is the founding ideology of the country https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_Destroyer

Yep, they clearly outlined that the country was meant for only free white men of good character. The United States is for white people, so it is not surprising that some people get upset when other races try to get their own slice of our accomplishments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

LMFAO - troll coward. I'm sorry your father abused you.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#706

Post by BlackFly »

snowwrestler wrote: post #371
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you use the tired, old "businesses can refuse to serve anybody they want" argument, understand that you are using the same arguments used in the past to refuse business to various races, creeds, orientations etc. that are now protected classes. That really ought to make you queasy and perhaps you should contemplate why. By the way, some states are now recognizing that political affiliation needs to be a protecte…

A black person cannot stop being black, nor is there any reason they should. A person who believes black people should be killed or kicked out of the U.S. can always change their mind, and they should. Advocating bigotry or violence is not a political affiliation nor is it a protected class.

Historically, some of the most discriminated people have been people of a different religion. In principle you can "stop believing in your religion" as easily as you can stop believing that immigrants are destroying your country.

In practice, nobody cares to protect bigots and a lot of people want to protect gays, immigrants, women, etc. It is troubling that we only protect certain classes of people since maybe the next group that comes along after the current group of bigots will actually deserve protection but the arguments we built to allow the lack of protection for bigots will be used to deny protection to that group.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#707

Post by latexr »

cryptonector wrote: post #544

That a crazy person posts a screed somewhere then commits mass murder is not by itself sufficient reason to destroy the forum where they posted their screed. It's not remotely clear to me that 8chan glorified previous mass murders -- of course, I've not looked, but then, Cloudflare doesn't post any evidence of this either. But even 8chan they did, that's essentially what the media is doing every time they give wall-t…

> No one talks about de-platforming CNN.

Roger Ebert[1], Tristan Harris[2], and others argue that the way CNN (and others) covers these events incentivises further occurrences.

[1]: https://boingboing.net/2012/12/15/roger-ebert-on-how-the-pre...

[2]: I’m having trouble finding the video amongst the flood of news reports from the recent events.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#708

Post by qrbLPHiKpiux »

CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

“I may disagree with what you say but will defend with you your right to say it.”

- Voltaire

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#709

Post by boomlinde »

PunchTornado wrote: post #676
blacklight86 wrote: post #525

What kind of free speech are we exactly advocating here? The freedom to spread cheap hate, fake news and bigotry against minorities? I'm sorry but moderating such offenses isn't a limitation to free speech. For the same reason why, if you start shouting nig or monkey to black people in a shopping mall, the police is likely to intervene and take you away - and I don't think that any sane person would argue that they'r…

I don't agree. I think people should be free to say their opionions online and offline, no matter how bad those opinions are. I disagree with cloudfare's decision.

> I think people should be free to say their opionions online and offline, no matter how bad those opinions are.

So do I, but outside essential utility monopolies, I also believe that no one should be forced to facilitate those opinions. That Cloudflare choose not to do so is ultimately an expression of their own opinions and values.

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