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Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

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701–710 of 776 posts

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#701

Attitudes towards free speech have changed a lot in recent times. This is related to the rise of social media. The advent of social media had made it too easy to spread hate online. It started off innocently enough, with cat videos uploaded to youtube, but soon extremists were taking advantage of social media for radicalization purposes, and others even live-streaming mass murders. This has caused an upheaval in atti…

I am very much in favor of Free Speech myself. But I think the annoying thing people forget is that it's the job of society to determine what is okay and what isn't. The government isn't supposed to decide our morals, we tell the government what those should be. Society is deciding that this is not stuff we want. Society is rejecting these ideas, and Facebook or Cloudflare when they dropped the Daily Stormer, etc, ar…

> bulk of society does want these ideas

This is completely unproven.

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#702

Every time this subject comes up, someone inevitably says something like "Facebook is a private corporation, the first amendment only applies to the government, and if you want to use Facebook you have to play by their rules. No one is owed a platform." Platforms like Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter are basically monopolies. They are the only services in their class to take seriously if you're looking to gain a follow…

Philosophically, there are philosophies that state that when a person causes too many headaches for a society, that society has the right to kill that person. InfoWars is garbage meant to sell you tactical ass wipes (yes, really, google it). Who gives a crap if they aren’t allowed on Facebook? Why do you want them to gain a following?

Are you seriously advocating for the murder of people who are "headaches"? Most people in the right are headaches too, do they deserve deplatforming? Whistleblowers?

You describe something a shade worse than facism.

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#703
post #700

I'm very familiar with all of these banned people and institutions, and I'm not at all convinced they're "dangerous". I'm not sure what the benefits are, and I'm much more concerned that their exact misdeeds never seem clearly articulate, even by people who seem extremely interested in having them silenced.

The rationale is they have stupid followers who commit the actual damage. I fail to see why they aren't prosecuted. You're not anonymous on Facebook. And you shouldn't be on twitter, and youtube as well.

> they have stupid followers who commit the actual damage

Then shouldn't we ban/punish these followers?

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#704
post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can set up a website, create an email list, etc., do some guerrilla marketing the old fashion way. If their followers were truly that in love with them, surely they can find a way to fund their own website.

Until the their payment processors refuse to do business with them due to political pressure. I guess they could accept money orders or cryptocurrency, but services are centralized to the point that "just create your own website" isn't a simple solution any more.

Or their domain registrar drops them. And their hosting company. And their ISP doesn't allow them to self host. And then they're effectively blackballed from the internet.

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#705
post #679

Every time this subject comes up, someone inevitably says something like "Facebook is a private corporation, the first amendment only applies to the government, and if you want to use Facebook you have to play by their rules. No one is owed a platform." Platforms like Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter are basically monopolies. They are the only services in their class to take seriously if you're looking to gain a follow…

> Platforms like Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter are basically monopolies. They're not monopolies, they're just expedient ways to reach larger audiences. There's a difference. A lot of clones do exist. They would just leave it the content creator to bring their audience. If anything, there's now a danger that the platforms that cater to the fringe now start to gain traction, as some of these figures do bring with them…

> A lot of clones do exist.

Name three.

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#706
post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The New York Times? Read about how the Spanish American War got started and what role the media played in it. Read about Puerto Rico. None of this is new. What is new is how far the media elite have tried to take it this time. They dropped all semblance of objectivity out of fear that Trump would become some kind of despot. Or was the real fear that unconscionable crimes would be exposed? What would the people do if…

I suspect the "point to a worse medium" request was for a medium today , not the 1890s.

It is diagnostic, however. The point is that the mass media is a player in the game, not the "4th Estate" or whatever high-minded bs they say they are. There is zero objectivity.

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#707
post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what is enough then? Death?

Hyperbole don't bring anything to the discussion. The consequences was that he was ban from several services. There is also a defamation lawsuit against him. That is how it work in a lawful society. And whatever happen, yes mistake happen, and yes you can apologies. But nobody is obligated to forgive you.

> The consequences was that he was ban from several services.

He made the claims in September 2014. He's being banned in May 2019. Such a gaping delay means this doesn't really qualify as a consequence.

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want you to say it with your real name instead of a pseudo name. > Like how I'm stating my belief on this subject with my real name. Because I'm sure as hell you wouldn't be defending Alex Jones' actions. Of course they wouldn't, but I don't see why this is a point you would like to make. They would face the potential for real-life backlash if any of many mobs prowling the internet noticed their comment. You can…

I like to think the link is that if people truly think that their discussion and what they've presented than they have nothing to fear. Nor are they willing to sacrifice their integrity for it. The best possible way of doing this would be if the person is basing this argument from the basis of good intention and good will and that they know the subject is of good. But if you can't do that perhaps deep down in side yo…

> But if you can't do that perhaps deep down in side you know there is something wrong with your position. If you still believe in it you ought to have a solid argument.

Or you believe you have a solid argument, but realize it's an unpopular one, and have seen others with unpopular arguments be harassed and fired for them. (How ironic that you raise this argument in a thread literally about people suffering for their unpopular arguments!)

> Having a real name forces at person to be honest

People can only be truly honest when anonymous, and assured safety from consequences.

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#709
post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, then everything is working as it should. Still doesn't resolve the question of deplatforming and banning though. There's still considerable inconsistency at play here, with people like Dorsey saying social media is a human right, and then exiling people with no transparent "due process" or recourse for making amends. As deplorably as we treat our criminals, they eventually serve their term and regain (most) of…

Sorry, I don’t understand. Currently, social media networks act independently of law enforcement. Someone can run afoul of the law while not getting banned from a service, and vice versa. Alex Jones has been banned because companies saw him violating their TOS — this is related but independent of the ongoing civil lawsuit he faces. You’re suggesting that online services have no sanctions whatsoever, because you have…

> You’re suggesting that online services have no sanctions whatsoever, because you have faith that the justice system will be enough of a deterrent?

I'm questioning the premise that "speech deterrence is needed at all, or that it's a good idea even in principle.

If you're not inciting violence, which is violence and so against the law, then what justification is there for censoring speech? These companies that provide free services are censoring for optics, with a purely profit-motive to placate advertisers. This motive will not discriminate solely against hate speech, but anything even remotely controversial will eventually be censored, and these services will become the same bland pablum we've had on cable TV for decades, reducing the rich and diverse tapestry of online content we've enjoyed for decades.

Furthermore, considering how influential social media is, by encouraging this type of censorship, we are creating new social norms whereby large corporations are now essentially permitted to overtly meddle in our elections. Where's the oversight for this? Already considerable evidence exists that conservative viewpoints are censored more widely.

The motive on the part of activists pushing this is that the internet is "spreading hate", that it's led to an increase in radicalization and violence, etc. Except there's precious little evidence this is the case.

Studies actually done on radicalization [1] show the internet increases opportunities for radicalization simply because you're exposed to so many diverse viewpoints, and it creates an echo chamber effect because you then follow only the sources that reinforce your bias, but they do not find evidence for accelerating the process of radicalization, for radicalization without physical contact, and for self-radicalization.

The narrative spun is that right-wing terrorism is increasing in the US [2], therefore the echo chambers from these internet sites is at least partly responsible. Except that doesn't explain why the US's rates are rising while the rest of the world's rates are falling. This speaks to local circumstances driving the increase in violence.

All in all, there seems to be considerable danger to encouraging these corporations to make up their own rules and censor without oversight, and there are few upsides that I can see. It might make some people feel like they've "done something", but there's precious little evidence that these measures are effective or even necessary.

[1] https://www.rand.org/randeurope/research/projects/internet-a...

[2] https://qz.com/1355874/terrorism-is-surging-in-the-us-fueled...

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not irrelevant. The OP said that "no one is entitled to online speech". That's an unqualified statement which my link disproves. If they had instead qualified it as, "no one has a right to speech on Facebook", that's a different claim (arguably also false depending on the circumstances).

The post is about the US, your link shows the right exists only in about 6 countries, none of which are the US.So it's irrelevant.

Once again, the statement was unqualified, "no one has the right to..." And once again, my link literally proves this statement to be false, because as you just admitted, at least some people do have that right.
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