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Atlassian acquires Trello for $425M

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Re: Atlassian acquires Trello for $425M

#701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only major bug I've experienced in Tower v2 is related to renaming repos. That part's very broken, but besides that it's been great for me.

Staging, unstaging, and discarding line-by-line has been extremely flaky for me in v1 and v2. Often discarding a deleted line will insert the line in a completely unrelated part of the file, so instead of a deletion, you now have a deletion and an addition. And so on. In combination with GitUp, it's still a great tool, but it could need better QA so that even edge cases are solid.

I've had similar issues with staging/un-staging causing crashes or just hanging Tower.

My biggest gripe is that Tower 1 use to display all your stashes on the side (expanded, not collapsed) by name/date. Tower 2 hides all that information from being easily viewable. I use to use stashes quite a lot, but since switching over I've significantly decreased my usage of it.

Re: Atlassian acquires Trello for $425M

#702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open source alternatives are already out there. Wekan is one of the more popular ones. I'm not sure if it has all of the features of Trello as I haven't used Trello extensively. https://github.com/wekan/wekan

It misses a few of Trello's features (including keyboard shortcuts and checklists) but it's close.

I'm not atlassians CEO but I'd like to think it would be cheaper to build keyboard shortcuts and checklists than to buy Trello.

Those features should take at most a month and cost at most $25k to build.

Yes there are other things that make Trello stand out but I don't see a justification for this purchase if not just to hire the team.

Re: Atlassian acquires Trello for $425M

#703
post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about HipChat don't you like? I know it can be buggy at times, but from a strictly functional perspective, I feel like it's ok, or at least sufficient for me.

"Barely sufficient to stop people from switching to Slack" seems to be Atlassian's target. Atlassian abandoned HipChat's bug tracker, and put up a fresh JIRA that they discourage you from using at several steps. That's one way to get the bug count down without fixing any bugs.

I've logged a number of tickets against their product, their solution seems most frequently to be "we're merging this with another ticket that's about 50% related, fixing some other issue, then closing this ticket and opening another one for other issues since merged into this ticket, elsewhere." If you follow the ticket trail around long enough, you may see your issue fixed, but I haven't been that dedicated yet. Their support process is certainly pretty crappy.

Re: Atlassian acquires Trello for $425M

#704
post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're only comparing Bitbucket by itself to Gitlab then you'd be correct. If you do a fair comparison and compare the entire Atlassian suite to Gitlab, then you see that the Atlassian suite is far more powerful for most enterprise use cases, which typically involve highly customized workflows and reporting in Jira. The integrations with Jira, making it incredibly easy for higher ups to follow overall progress on…

What workflow or reporting would we need to add first to GitLab in your opinion?

I remember being in a pitch meeting with an engineer who sells to various other enterprises and he said that what's changed for traditional enterprises over the last few years is that, no matter what their industry, they've all kind of woken up and realized that they're software companies too.

A large enterprise that's fully exploiting Jira will set it up for non-developers, indeed they'll set up Jira primarily for their non-developers. HR will have an HR project with the following issue types: New Hires, Employee Disputes, etc., each with workflows with statuses like resume received, contacted to set up a first interview, first interview set up, offer extended... etc. And then you can use all of Jira's existing reporting schemes to help management figure out, if I need to hire someone new for some type of position, how long does that take? Are there differences between different positions? How long does each stage in the process take? Why? Does the aggregate data show some kind of bias - gender or otherwise? How do I make this faster? And so on. The kinds of questions that you can ask when you're an enterprise with established process and not a start-up with the entire company fit into one room.

Internally, even within our engineering division, we've been using issue linking to other projects to get better visibility into why various work items get stuck. If I'm dependent on some internal service for my work item, and that service becomes unavailable for some period of time, I can grab the Jira support issue tracking the unavailability, mark my work item as blocked by that issue, and then that's visible all the way up the enterprise hierarchy. Similarly, I don't have to ask the people responsible whether they've fixed their system yet, my own item updates automatically to show that my item isn't blocked anymore, and I can go back to work.

The main difference between Jira and Gitlab is that Jira is a workflow management tool and Gitlab is a software management tool. Gitlab looks fantastic if I want to start a new software company and have everything be right there in one window for me. But if you put all the software parts in front of all your non-software teams, they'll balk. It's just not relevant to them.

Microsoft has a tool much like Gitlab called TFS, which has been around for far longer than Gitlab has. TFS is also designed to have this one-stop-shop UI, and TFS also never became an enterprise workflow management tool, even though it too has issues and workflows and customizations up the wazoo. It's a product that's targeted to software developers and it knows it, and that's why hardly any large enterprises actually use it unless they have old .NET projects that have been on TFS forever.

This is the benefit of Atlassian's multiple-product model. Jira is management-first. Bitbucket is software-first. Confluence is customer-first. In an all-in-one UI, you have to pick who's first.

The real problem Gitlab faces is how to retain software projects in growing companies once those companies expand and become large enterprises, and need to start to track more generalized workflows. Because if you had to ask what's most important in the Gitlab UI, workflow and reporting is definitely not it.

Re: Atlassian acquires Trello for $425M

#705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not too concerned about someone getting the code, reading it and discovering a flaw allowing for exploit. I'm much more concerned about someone being able to modify code that will be pulled onto production systems by build and deployment scripts (not to mention the build and deployment scripts themselves) which would allow direct access without any need to hack anything beyond the external cloud service. Even a d…

Does anyone care enough about your product to actually go to the trouble to do that? It seems that in terms of actual risk management, managing an on premise version of everything is mitigation out of scale with the actual risk. Besides, a disgruntled employee of your company is far more likely to be malicious than a disgruntled employee of some random cloud services company. What would be their motivation? They prob…

> managing an on premise version of everything is mitigation out of scale with the actual risk.

Once you have these services running they're fairly stable and hands-off, especially if you have them firewalled off enough to not have to worry too much about remote exploits. A little bit of docker experience can do the job here, we're small enough that we don't need a fancy high availability configuration or anything, so it keeps things fairly simple.

Of course a disgruntled coworker is a bigger concern, but one which is easier to control than outsiders are. And that's not to mention the many times in the past that I've seen 3rd party companies hacked to do things like steal Bitcoin wallets via their providers. If it's an easy risk to mitigate, may as well do it.

Re: Atlassian acquires Trello for $425M

#706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only major bug I've experienced in Tower v2 is related to renaming repos. That part's very broken, but besides that it's been great for me.

Staging, unstaging, and discarding line-by-line has been extremely flaky for me in v1 and v2. Often discarding a deleted line will insert the line in a completely unrelated part of the file, so instead of a deletion, you now have a deletion and an addition. And so on. In combination with GitUp, it's still a great tool, but it could need better QA so that even edge cases are solid.

Are you seeing the lines get inserted into the file itself or that that's just what the diff reflects? I have experienced the diff in Tower being wrong (getting stale), and while a minor nuisance, it's always been fixed by a restart.

Re: Atlassian acquires Trello for $425M

#707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Staging, unstaging, and discarding line-by-line has been extremely flaky for me in v1 and v2. Often discarding a deleted line will insert the line in a completely unrelated part of the file, so instead of a deletion, you now have a deletion and an addition. And so on. In combination with GitUp, it's still a great tool, but it could need better QA so that even edge cases are solid.

This is different than my experience of Tower and Tower 2. I frequently pick through dozens of lines of code for a granular commit history, sometimes backing up a commit, saving a commit as a patch, (then) amending some lines to a previous commit, staging/unstaging non-consecutive additions and deletions, etc. and I've not experienced problems. Renaming repos is straightforward but doing so does not rename the direct…

Yeah, my intent is to rename them in the UI only. For example, if the dir is "my-repo", I might prefer to call it "My Repo" in Tower instead. All of my repos are nested within one or more groups in Tower, which may be relevant.

Re: Atlassian acquires Trello for $425M

#708
post #681

Very happy for the folks at Trello. Great outcome for a great tool. Seems lots of JIRA-haters in the comments but lets get back and look at this event. The folks at Fog Creek brought us FogBugz, Stackoverflow, Trello. We should celebrate their success because its events like this that create the motivation for some of us to go create something that "stands on their shoulders" or competes with them or creates some new…

> Seems lots of JIRA-haters in the comments Not just JIRA; I think a lot of people were burnt by Atlassian's management of Hipchat or Bitbucket too. Historically there's something of a track record where Atlassian is the place where interesting, innovative products go to stagnate. Bug fixes happen glacially (a 1 year turnaround seems to be standard), and new feature development doesn't happen at all. Running Hipchat…

That was my first thought too. Jira has Kanban so there's little point for them to improve Trello if they can convert people to Jira.

Re: Atlassian acquires Trello for $425M

#709
post #269
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would they do that though? Trello covers a market that was not really served by any Atlassian products (or rather, market segments that weren't well treated). Trello has a huge active following, and a lot of users who would otherwise not know Atlassian products. Getting any sort of proper cross-selling going on would be great for their ecosystem long-term. People might start at Trello, but go to Atlassian product…

In the context of discussion about mergers and acquisitions, I believe "killing a competitor" almost exclusively means purchasing a company so that it's no longer a threat. In the course of doing so, you assimilate the acquiree's users, or at least try to. This is the meaning I interpreted from the comment you responded to. The rarer definition, which is that a company actually shuts down the product and doesn't make…

Autodesk acquired Softimage and then 3 years later shut it down to great user uproar. Autodesk them tried to migrate them to Maya.

http://www.cgchannel.com/2014/03/softimage-died-to-make-max-...

https://www.change.org/p/autodesk-save-softimage

http://web.archive.org/web/20140519212219/http://e-roja.com/...

Re: Atlassian acquires Trello for $425M

#710
post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atlassian: Confluence - Went from very small user base to hundreds of thousands of users. It's a great tool for internal content management (think HR docs, decision documentation, meeting notes, etc.). HipChat - Small user base and unscalable architecture. Hundreds of thousands of users and loads of resources to rewrite nearly all of it's backend. Still a work in progress but it's been very stable for the past year a…

Small detail: Confluence wasn't an acquisition, but Atlassian's second product (JIRA was their first).

You are correct. I thought that Conf was an acquisition of a very basic wiki product that Atlassian built into a enterprise content collaboration suite but I was remembering incorrectly. The story was that Confluence's main development line was maintained by contractors instead of in-house developers and after launch dev was pulled in. My mistake.
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