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Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

latimes.com

701–710 of 893 posts

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manual transmission is incompatible with cruise control with proximity detection, because the automated system can't shift (or it would be an automatic transmission). I would buy a car which has both (like the Smart) and manual shift in difficult conditions (like driving over mountain passes in snow). However the Smart I rented didn't have a clutch. It's weird. I don't know.

I have ACC on a shift gear and it's great on highways. Not entirely incompatible for sure.

Me too. However I don't have proximity detection. I don't think this would be useful. Say you have traffic then the proximity detector will stall your engine.

I am using cruise control to stay exactly at the speed limit. In Switzerland there are sometimes long and boring stretches with low speed limits, and nasty traffic enforcement cams.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#702
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because you'll prefer to run over pedestrians crossing the street so you don't have to break and waste kinetic energy.

-That only works for children; adults have too large a moment of inertia for this technique to be effective. Seriously, his (valid, IMHO) point was that driving eco-friendly was all well and good when conditions allowed (A distinction not being made by the training manual) - but when interacting with other drivers, accelerating slowly, for instance, would often mean you could never (legally) enter a road where you're…

Interesting. I'll have too look up what the Swiss road law says about this.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty easy. Take your foot off the gas. If you're still sliding, steer into the slide and correct. If necessary, rinse & repeat. IMO, the only real advantage a manual has is the ability to do some engine braking.

Is "steer into the slide" the same thing as the above comment to "steer where you want to go"? I literally don't know what steering into the slide means. If my front end is sliding right and my back end is sliding left then I should steer which way?

If you're on an icy road (or other low traction surface like oiled stone or gravel) and your car starts pointing/moving/spinning to the left, you want to turn left to keep the front wheels moving and regain control and dump as much speed as possible without locking the wheels. Don't touch the brakes until you have traction!

That's counter-intuitive for many people as typically you want to actually go right.

If you have a manual transmission and you know what you're doing, in some situations you can downshift and use the engine to slow you down more. But in my experience, it's a "nice to have" vs a must for passenger vehicles. (different story for big trucks)

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow, you are incorrect in almost every statement. I get it, you like easy driving without worrying about clutch and gears, but not everybody is like that. I would never want automatic transmission for my car, it's inferior, expensive, less fun and car has no way knowing details of road situation I am facing and choices I am about to make. And I am far from petrolhead person FYI. Another point - I don't know a single…

> it's inferior, expensive, less > fun and car has no way knowing > details of road situation I agree, and have believed those things since my mother (literally) taught me them! But I've never driven an automatic, and the small number of people I know in the UK who have switched to an automatic are never, ever going back. Food for thought.

I just switched because I simply couldn't get the vehicle I needed (2016 Toyota Tacoma, 4 doors, 6' bed) with a manual transmission. I love the truck, but I still wish I could have had it with a manual. When my girls are old enough to drive, I hope I can still find a manual that's safe for them to learn on, just so they'll know what to do if they ever need to use one.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of any situation outside of a race course where this would be a necessary maneuver. If you're going so fast on public roads where you need to left foot brake to transfer weight to avoid skidding off the road, it sounds like something is wrong. Where are you doing this enough where having a car with throttle cut off is enough of an annoyance where you won't buy a car with it anymore? For reference, I got…

Different driving styles. I focus on safe driving. Being able to transfer weight around bad bumpy roads helps me drive safe. Roads are not great in Puerto Rico and I drive a FWD car. Edit: Downvotes? For driving safely on shitty roads? I hope people don't assume Im being a jackass driver just because I use my left foot.

Could you give a specific example of how this makes you safer? I really don't understand how braking could cause an appreciable weight transfer at speeds I consider appropriate for "bad bumpy roads".

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#706
post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always thought this. Growing up in the mountains, in Colorado, it was drilled incessantly into me how important it was to use engine/transmission braking on long hills, etc. I know it, I understand it ... and it always irked me. I never liked the idea that I would save wear and tear on a consumable that is meant to be regularly worn and repaired and instead transfer that wear and tear to an integral part of th…

I believe the reasoning here is that braking all the way down a steep grade can cause your brakes to overheat and become temporarily inoperable. I don't know whether this is a real effect or not, but I have heard it given as a justification for engine-braking.

unkeljoe: "braking all the way down a steep grade can cause your brakes to overheat and become temporarily inoperable. "

That condition is known as brake fade/fading and occurs mostly with drum brakes and can occur on bicycles, motorbikes and automobiles.

Braking heats the brake drums, which then expand. The drum may expand in diameter to the extent that the brake pads no longer contact the drum sufficiently enough to slow the vehicle. Your brakes "fade" away.

Many vehicles have disc brakes in front and drums on the rear, an arrangement usually sufficient even in hilly country. Of course when pulling a boat or trailer having all disk brakes would be a safer bet.

Brake drum fade is by far the most common manifestation, but there are other types of "fade", e.g., brake fluid can get heated up enought to boil and reduce braking system pressure, brake pads can "slip" more at extremely high temperatures:

http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/30449/do-mechani...

Last ditch efforts: shift into a lower gear, use any emergency brake (which is mechanical and bypasses the braking fluid system and so won't fade due to boiling fluid), and finally, use the inside of a hill/mountain as a giant brake pad by sliding your car's body into it as gently(!) as possible.

Finally I feel compelled to warn anyone who ever pulls a trailer, boat or RV about a potentially fatal phenomenon they may encounter on even gently sloped roads: undamped driven harmonic oscillation between towed and towing vehicle. My first experience:

VW Beetle towing a U-Haul trailer on a Pennsylvania turnpike mountainside. Traffic moderate in both directions.

On a long downhill segment the trailer hitch began to move to-and-fro left and right, gently at first but, as I attempted to correct with steering, rapidly growing in amplitude. My steering reaction time and corrections were unfortunately timed precisely so as to _increase_ the amplitude of the oscillation. In a flash the rear end of the Beetle was hopping right and left! Insight - I need to dampen the oscillation. I gripped the steering wheel, braced both forearms against my legs and reduced all steering corrections to a minimum (I just kept the car on the road and in the proper lane). The car's front end skidded left and right as I kept the wheels as straight forward as possible. Then I slowly applied the brakes. This brought the oscillations under control and the speed down. I continued the trip at a much slower speed despite the honking of frustrated drivers behind me.

That first experience, enhanced by both impending ignominious death on a mountainside and the sudden realization of the utility of my mathematical physics class* [1], was exhilarating.

In the years since I have myself seen this occur several more times, which makes me think it must be a not-uncommon event that requires some warning.

It once again occurred on IH 10 between Houston and New Orleans, one of the flattest pieces of land in the USA. A heavy-duty six-wheeler pickup was hauling a trailer full of goods on an extremely gentle slope at near 70-mph when his trailer hitch began to oscillate left and right. I had been following and observing his truck and noticed that the system seemed to be periodically oscillating, so I stayed well back and did not attempt to pass even on a four-lane highway. Finally things took a turn for the worse and, within 6 seconds of back-and-forth oscillation and attempts at correction, both truck and trailer were driven off the road into the grassy median. Luckily the median was wide flat grass and no harm occurred to driver, truck or trailer. I stopped and crossed the road as the driver took off his cowboy hat, waved it at his truck and trailer as if dismissing an unruly horse, bent his back, and put his hands on his knees in amazement.

I spoke to him awhile, reassured him and gave as best an explanation to him of what I saw and what he might do to prevent further mishaps. He was quite out of sorts and I'm not certain he was fully able to absorb the lesson. He was definitely astonished to find himself on the median with his truck and trailer turned around 270 degrees from the direction he intended.

Had this happened on a strip of highway without such a wide median the truck would have driven at ~60 mph into ongoing traffic at 70 mph. Had this happened on a hillside, I would estimate a 50% chance of both vehicle and trailer plummeting downhill. For these and other reasons, I think this phenomenon must kill more than a few people each year.

More discussion of fish-tailing trailers:

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=tr...

Physics can save your life:

[1] http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/oscdr2.html - Under topic "Driven Oscillator Example" the red curve describes the ever-increasing amplitude experienced.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Mazda CX-5 locks up in all conditions, even if it is cold and in the first gear. And it has better EPA than the same model with MT.

"We’ve combined the best attributes of conventional automatic, continuously variable and dual clutch transmissions. The transmission locks up to couple directly with the engine over a far wider range than other automatics. This delivers a significant improvement in fuel economy and a more direct, manual-like power delivery and driving feel. Shifts are quick, accurate and smooth across the six speeds." So, as they men…

It locks up after 8 mph probably because if it locked up at any lower of a speed, the engine would be too close to stalling.

Also, the ZF 6HPxx (and newer) transmissions behave the same way. My 2011 335i will lock up in first gear (probably around 10 mph, but it depends on the load). This transmission has been used by BMW since at least 2006. A derivative of it is also used in the Ford Mustang now.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#708
post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there's nothing weird about it, but the stories about why they are better are pretty much entirely down to "well I like it better." Okay, that's fine. But statistically, CAFE standards aren't being met by manuals, but by automatics and other advanced drivetrains. People can yell "but physics!" all they want, but the aggregate data is showing clearly that manual drivetrains are not the path towards increased effic…

As I said, high end automatics can outperform manuals in lab conditions. This is because obviously they can choose to perfectly and optimally shit up and down gears in a lab better than a human can. That does not mean that they can do so in real life. A human knows what conditions they are driving in. A human knows if they need to stop in 50ft, a human has all kinds of intelligence about upcoming torque requirements…

Having more control isn't something everyone values: some people would rather focus on where they are going than the process of getting there. By that metric automatics are far better.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote you, but you are on Hacker News, and you are complaining about bad software, and making the claim that said software will never improve, despite car manufacturers having extremely high motivations - to the tune of billions of dollars of market share - to improve this software, to meet stricter fuel efficiency laws and safety laws.

Solving good automatic transmission in isolation is basically solving general AI. And then you have the opposite problem of constantly trying to predict how the black box will behave. Much better to have the driver (regardless of human or software) control both transmission and the other concerns.

Automatics will never shift well until they can consider the road ahead. Upcoming curve, slope up or down, heavy traffic, etc. all affect a driver's decision about when to shift and which gear to select. So you basically need the sensors a self-driving car would have, and at that point, manual vs. automatic transmission is sort of irrelevant.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#710
post #629
post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always thought this. Growing up in the mountains, in Colorado, it was drilled incessantly into me how important it was to use engine/transmission braking on long hills, etc. I know it, I understand it ... and it always irked me. I never liked the idea that I would save wear and tear on a consumable that is meant to be regularly worn and repaired and instead transfer that wear and tear to an integral part of th…

It's not about wear and tear. Brakes heat up when they're used, and descending an entire mountain on the brakes is likely to overheat them to the point where you have no braking power left at all. Not a good situation to be in on a steep slope. Using engine braking to keep your speed under control prevents this.

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