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New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

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Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#701

Post by xenihn »

peatmoss wrote: post #299
laddng wrote: post #18

I've had a good, satisfying run with MacBook Pros, but now I'm stepping off the Apple train. I understand that Apple is trying to go in a new direction with the new MacBook Pros, and I won't complain about it. I am now simply moving to an Arch Linux setup on an old Lenovo Thinkpad Carbon X1 to continue living inside the Terminal.

A couple years back, I was (increasingly un)happily using Mac OS X on a MBP. I made the switch back to a Free *nix and a tiling window manager. While it's gotten some eye-rolls from tech friends, the UX of my current system is amazing. I have an almost vanilla Xmonad configuration, combined with dmenu, and passwordstore / dmenu integration. It simply rocks. I anticipate soon starting a new job with a firm that has mo…

Any chance you're willing to share your config with me? I'm really tempted to get a carbon.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#702

Post by deong »

cpr wrote: post #548
Symbiote wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask. I was given a Macbook, and thought I'd get used to it, but I couldn't. Basic stuff is broken, like maximizing a window. Focus-follows-mouse doesn't work properly, and multiple windows from the same application are broken -- I'm not sure what the "correct" way to switch between multiple Firefox windows is, but it's clunky. Linux on the Macbook can probably work if you're determined, but I'm (obviously) not a fan…

Standard way to switch between application windows is command-backquote. (cmd-`) Works great.

It does work great, meaning that it reliably executes the intended functionality correctly. My problem is that the intended functionality is not what I want. I have lots of terminals, Emacs windows, browser windows, etc. open at any given time, and I want my window manager to be agnostic to which is which. When I signal "focus next window", I want that to both jump between windows of an application AND jump to a window of another application, whichever is next in the focus ring. You can't (easily at least) do that on a Mac.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#703

Post by douche »

st3v3r wrote: post #683
douche wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody that's trying to use Visual Studio on one of these is going to be cursing the lack of F-buttons.

I hardly ever used them when I used VS, so I don't see why I would be cursing their lack now.

Were you clicking around the menus all the time or using a heavily modded keymap? Building, running, almost all of the debugger commands, viewing property pages, switching between code and designers, all make heavy use of the function keys out of the box. Those are pretty common tasks.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#704

Post by mikejmoffitt »

jobigoud wrote: post #424
ag_47 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hmm, looking at the comments -- am I the only who uses Fn + Arrow Keys for Page Up/Down and Home/End purposes? How can you not?

I realize I don't know the first thing about MacBook keyboards. Are you saying they don't have Page up, Page down, Home and End? Maybe a Windows thing but I use Function keys everyday, F3 for incremental search, F5, F9, F10, F11 for debugging. Not having these keys would be handicapping.

I also make good use of the F-keys, as well as the pgup/pgdn/home/end/del block. I use both Linux and Windows.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#705

Post by dump121 »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #499
jobigoud wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize I don't know the first thing about MacBook keyboards. Are you saying they don't have Page up, Page down, Home and End? Maybe a Windows thing but I use Function keys everyday, F3 for incremental search, F5, F9, F10, F11 for debugging. Not having these keys would be handicapping.

Home/end are not really necessary on a Mac, where you can use cmd+arrow keys instead (left=start of line, right=end of line, up=start of document, down=end of document). The function keys are also not commonly used by apps because the system maps them to brightness control, volume, play/pause etc. by default and you need to use the Fn key to produce the actual function key keystrokes. The convention for incremental s…

You can change Fn keys behaviour from prefs and I believed all developers would have defaulted to Function keys but seems not so.

Chrome, IntelliJ, VSC all use Fn keys for debugging, and also at least I have mapped most of function keys to some tasks, like F5 for open symbol etc.

Touchbar is only good for some slider like things where continuous strip will help. It is also good for novice users like MSOffice ribbon, they can see a lot of things on screen now and they don't have to hunt in menu or remember shortcuts.

But for a real pro user spending whole day in few softwares, it makes no sense. I have seen pro photoshop users using 3-4 keys long shortcut like second nature, they need access to tonnes of features and variants so more keys the merrier.

Honestly, I haven't seen any real use cases of the touchbar, smileys and photo slider is cute but not something on top of my list to optimise.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#706

Post by mikejmoffitt »

snowwrestler wrote: post #699
laichzeit0 wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I put it to you that you've never used a debugger if you've never used Fn keys.

To use the function keys on an old MacBook Pro, you have to chord with the "fn" key to override the brightness, volume, etc controls. To use the functions keys in the touch bar in the new MacBook Pro, you have to chord with the "fn" key as well. So where is the difference...

It has always been possible to set those keys to default to F-key functions instead of media functions. The difference here is that the position may not be constant, and you can't feel with your fingers what you're over before you commit to activating the function, so you must look. In some contexts you can "get used to it", but this is a steeper uphill battle.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#707

Post by kempbellt »

Symbiote wrote: post #481
peatmoss wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple years back, I was (increasingly un)happily using Mac OS X on a MBP. I made the switch back to a Free *nix and a tiling window manager. While it's gotten some eye-rolls from tech friends, the UX of my current system is amazing. I have an almost vanilla Xmonad configuration, combined with dmenu, and passwordstore / dmenu integration. It simply rocks. I anticipate soon starting a new job with a firm that has mo…

Ask. I was given a Macbook, and thought I'd get used to it, but I couldn't. Basic stuff is broken, like maximizing a window. Focus-follows-mouse doesn't work properly, and multiple windows from the same application are broken -- I'm not sure what the "correct" way to switch between multiple Firefox windows is, but it's clunky. Linux on the Macbook can probably work if you're determined, but I'm (obviously) not a fan…

BetterTouchTool is also a handy way of dealing with the lack of a maximize option. Also provides window snapping, which can be quite useful.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#708

Post by ixtli »

elboru wrote: post #591
ixtli wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why people keep saying they've "removed" the escape key. The thing is programmable. http://live.arstechnica.com/hello-again-apples-october-2016-...

Do you remember texting without a touchscreen? I used to do it without looking at my phone, now with touchscreen I lost that ability, I have to check every word, some keyboards help with that correcting my words if I moved my fingers a little to the side, but it's not the same, with physical buttons I was sure I pressed the correct buttons. Physical buttons give touch feedback and that's important when you're focused…

Interesting.

I almost always text on my phone without looking because the visual effect where the selected letter appears above your finger actually makes me slow down. I was never able to use physical phone keyboards as easily as the adaptive software ones on modern phones.

Also I use vi mostly so I only use function keys rarely, in which case I look up.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#709

Post by dump121 »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #508
bsbechtel wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may never use the Fn and ESC keys (I hardly do either), but this does add to the list of events developers now need to handle in order to develop cross-platform compatible software.

Using function keys as shortcuts is already a terrible idea on macOS because these are used to control the screen brightness, volume, play/pause etc. The TouchBar might actually make it easier for new users to realise what the Fn key does.

either you don't use macbook or not interested enough to look for how to change that behavior. It is a single flag in preferences that allow you to use the keys as function keys and screen brightness etc. with 'fn' key.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#710

Post by dump121 »

nogbit wrote: post #513
laichzeit0 wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I put it to you that you've never used a debugger if you've never used Fn keys.

Visual Studio is the only place I've really used the function keys (F5, F10, F11), and I rarely use VS anymore. Outside of that I use F2 when in any kind of GUI that permits renaming of a file or folder. All of which can be rebound.

What about IntelliJ or Chrome or any IDE for that matter.
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