Uber has defeated Bill de Blasio’s plan to rein them in • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber has defeated Bill de Blasio’s plan to rein them in

#71

Post by dilap » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 1:04 AM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #64

jrockway wrote: post #48

I don't really like Uber's business practices but they do fill an essential niche in New York City. A couple years ago, the city allowed independent car services to paint their cars green and take street hails. They previously did this, of course, but it wasn't legal. And of course, not every "black car" became a green cab, so this still happens. It's the standard way to get around the outer boroughs of New York. I w…

[deleted]

It's less of a problem for uber though because (1) it only applies when there's no good uber driver match, not when the uber driver doesn't want to go where you're going (because then they'd get a bad review, or worse) (2) I'm not sure, but I believe there are penalties for drivers who cancel too much.

Re: Uber has defeated Bill de Blasio’s plan to rein them in

#72

Post by seizethecheese » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 1:06 AM UTC

sampo wrote: post #53

seizethecheese wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know every Uber driver chooses to be one. Also, to be an Uber driver you have to own a relatively new car... I couldn't even drive for Uber because my car is too cheap. These people are not helpless.

Some people might take a loan to buy a car to drive Uber?

To get a car loan you need employment history and decent credit. While some folks that fit this category are struggling, it's not exactly the profile of an exploited class.

Re: Uber has defeated Bill de Blasio’s plan to rein them in

#73

Post by dotBen » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 1:07 AM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #65

The thing about Uber I don’t understand is how they are going to defend their monopoly once they acquire it. Assuming they eventually win all the legal battles and drive all other taxi and taxi-like services out of business then how are they going to stop anyone else from entering their market? Each transport market is effectively isolated (you don’t hail a driver from SF to get around NYC). This means any new entran…

Assuming they eventually win all the legal battles and drive all other taxi and taxi-like services out of business

That's very unlikely to happen and I don't think anyone here at Uber sees the world as a zero-sum game as you portray it. Even in SF, the most mature Uber market, there are still plenty of cabs operating. Cabs offer a different service (street hails, fixed pricing etc) - which is why you can even hail a cab from the Uber app if you want.

Differentiation is key, and that's how Uber does and will compete with both taxis and direct TNC competitors.

Re: Uber has defeated Bill de Blasio’s plan to rein them in

#74

Post by noir_lord » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 1:07 AM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #65

The thing about Uber I don’t understand is how they are going to defend their monopoly once they acquire it. Assuming they eventually win all the legal battles and drive all other taxi and taxi-like services out of business then how are they going to stop anyone else from entering their market? Each transport market is effectively isolated (you don’t hail a driver from SF to get around NYC). This means any new entran…

I think (not an economist) but this is what happens when a market is disrupted, new players enter with a lower cost than incumbents, clean up, this encourages other new players to enter at slightly below, first player then drops to match and eventually you reach a new stable equilibrium, in lots of markets that is by one company winning and buying out the others (commodities like Sugar and Salt seem to go this way, it's hard to differentiate on Salt) while others divide up amongst big players (laptop market).

Uber will be interesting since the initial capital costs aren't that high (compared to a multibillion dollar fab plant or hundreds of 40,000sqft shops) so it could be a blood bath, alternatively one way of differentiating is on brand and Uber has (despite some negative press) got brand recognition.

There maybe a first mover advantage in play here as well, lots of sites clone successful sites (for example) but rarely make a tiny fraction of what the original one did.

Something else occurs, Uber took a lot of VC funding, new players entering the market who didn't do that could offer a better deal on both sides of the market and not have the millstone around their necks either, it would be amusing if a smaller nimbler non-VC company ate their lunch.

Re: Uber has defeated Bill de Blasio’s plan to rein them in

#75

Post by jrockway » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 1:11 AM UTC

arthurcolle wrote: post #70

jrcii wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a seasoned New Yorker I've learned that the best response to "where to?" is to silently get in the cab.

When do you drop the tidbit of information related to the whole reason you got in? /just moved to NYC

After you're inside and the door is closed.

This is the only way you can get to the airport during the "shift change" that's right around PM rush hour. Nobody will take you there if you tell them you want to go there.

That said the new Q70 bus from Jackson Heights (7/E/F/M/R) is quite efficient, and I don't bother with cabs anymore. Not worth paying someone $40 to bitch and moan about going to the airport when the MTA can get you there, from Brooklyn, in less than an hour for $2.50.

Re: Uber has defeated Bill de Blasio’s plan to rein them in

#76

Post by function_seven » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 1:13 AM UTC

arthurcolle wrote: post #70

jrcii wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a seasoned New Yorker I've learned that the best response to "where to?" is to silently get in the cab.

When do you drop the tidbit of information related to the whole reason you got in? /just moved to NYC

After you're seated and have closed the door. At that point the cab driver is much less likely to kick you out.

Re: Uber has defeated Bill de Blasio’s plan to rein them in

#77

Post by danieltillett » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 1:13 AM UTC

dotBen wrote: post #73

danieltillett wrote: post #65

The thing about Uber I don’t understand is how they are going to defend their monopoly once they acquire it. Assuming they eventually win all the legal battles and drive all other taxi and taxi-like services out of business then how are they going to stop anyone else from entering their market? Each transport market is effectively isolated (you don’t hail a driver from SF to get around NYC). This means any new entran…

Assuming they eventually win all the legal battles and drive all other taxi and taxi-like services out of business That's very unlikely to happen and I don't think anyone here at Uber sees the world as a zero-sum game as you portray it. Even in SF, the most mature Uber market, there are still plenty of cabs operating. Cabs offer a different service (street hails, fixed pricing etc) - which is why you can even hail a…

I also don’t think it is very likely either, I was just assuming the best case scenario for Uber and I can’t see how they can make money in the long term even if they achieve this. Competition is great for consumers, but not so good for investors.

Edit. Thanks for the updates to your post Ben. Given Uber’s cost of capital and current valuation how do you see Uber earning enough of a return with a differentiation business model? Or is the current business model irrelevant to Uber’s future and you foresee a massive pivot?

Re: Uber has defeated Bill de Blasio’s plan to rein them in

#78

Post by joemaller1 » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 1:15 AM UTC

In the last few years NYC has closed stretches of Broadway (a significant north-south corridor) to traffic, squeezed vehicle lane widths to add bike lanes and introduced several measures to slow or impede traffic so the city is safer for pedestrians. These are all very good things, but they come with a cost.

Reducing the surface area of roads does not magically remove cars from the roads, it just creates congestion and traffic.

If anything, Uber's model would seem to reduce traffic since their cars are more deliberate vs. taxis' aimlessly wandering.

NYC should try to figure out how to partner with Uber. Taxi's are already expensive enough to be something of a luxury (though filthy), Uber is a far better experience.

Re: Uber has defeated Bill de Blasio’s plan to rein them in

#79

Post by onewaystreet » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 1:15 AM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #65

The thing about Uber I don’t understand is how they are going to defend their monopoly once they acquire it. Assuming they eventually win all the legal battles and drive all other taxi and taxi-like services out of business then how are they going to stop anyone else from entering their market? Each transport market is effectively isolated (you don’t hail a driver from SF to get around NYC). This means any new entran…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader

They use their revenues and funding to subsidize lower prices in key cities than their competition can afford. They already do this in a few cities.

Re: Uber has defeated Bill de Blasio’s plan to rein them in

#80

Post by dotBen » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 1:20 AM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #77

dotBen wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming they eventually win all the legal battles and drive all other taxi and taxi-like services out of business That's very unlikely to happen and I don't think anyone here at Uber sees the world as a zero-sum game as you portray it. Even in SF, the most mature Uber market, there are still plenty of cabs operating. Cabs offer a different service (street hails, fixed pricing etc) - which is why you can even hail a…

I also don’t think it is very likely either, I was just assuming the best case scenario for Uber and I can’t see how they can make money in the long term even if they achieve this. Competition is great for consumers, but not so good for investors. Edit. Thanks for the updates to your post Ben. Given Uber’s cost of capital and current valuation how do you see Uber earning enough of a return with a differentiation busi…

I think you under-estimate the power of network effects and also the cost of entry to set up an on-demand transportation company. If it really was as easy and low cost as you assert I would suggest you would have seen many other players enter the market already by now.