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Coin Card Teardown

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Re: Coin Card Teardown

#71

Post by scintill76 »

mbreese wrote: post #41
stephengillie wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, magnetic swipe readers are EVERYwhere. And the collection of credit and debit networks connect every reader with almost every bank. It "just works" everywhere, and it's "impossible" for a retailer to be unable to connect to your bank. -Chip-and-pin? The card reader probably can't read it. -Apple/Google wallet and similar services? The card reader probably doesn't have an antenna for it. (Especially small…

Mag stripe readers are everywhere, but the banks have already started migrating over to chip and pin cards (with mag-stripe for backwards compatibility) for new issues. There are still older cards out there that won't expire for probably ~5 years or so, so I expect to see mag stripe readers around for at least that long. But it's fair to call it deprecated, even in the US. However, the transition is coming to the US…

At least when I researched about a year ago, it's uncommon to get a true chip-and-PIN in the US. Most of the chips are chip-and-signature.

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#72

Post by jldugger »

Domenic_S wrote: post #56
rio517 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been super broke and unable to pay bills at two points in my life - just out of college and trying to find a job after the dot-come bust, and again when my startup failed. During those bad times, I'd lose track of my finances and a few times couldn't pay for my groceries. I can't describe in words how much I felt like a total, utter failure. All the fears I had about how I was going to pay my bills that month,…

I can relate to your feeling, and this ONE WEIRD TRICK will greatly increase your positive feelings: get a credit card with no fees that you pay off every month. Once I got my Amex, I never again wondered if that swipe would go through -- it just does, every time. That of course comes with its own set of problems (ahem, budgeting).

Doesn't really solve OP's problem of forgetting their card, or my own of 'the network is down.'

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#73

Post by jules »

stephengillie wrote: post #27
Globz wrote: post #16

This is the first time I am reading about this product but why mag stripe over smart cards? isn't it less secure and deprecated technology? it seems very useful but relying on mag stripe isn't the best move, no? Perhaps they couldn't "switch cards" while using smart cards so mag stripe was the only solution?

In the USA, magnetic swipe readers are EVERYwhere. And the collection of credit and debit networks connect every reader with almost every bank. It "just works" everywhere, and it's "impossible" for a retailer to be unable to connect to your bank. -Chip-and-pin? The card reader probably can't read it. -Apple/Google wallet and similar services? The card reader probably doesn't have an antenna for it. (Especially small…

It's the same in Europe. You can pay everywhere with any debit card. These cards have both a magnetic strip and a chip. The readers have a slot for reading with the strip and reading with the chip. Most shops have taped the magnetic strip slot shut because it's deemed insecure. Indeed, the only reason that Coin works at all is that magnetic strips can be easily copied, also by criminals with fake readers, or criminals who put a small card copy gadget in front of the reading slot of an ATM machine, along with a camera to capture your pin code.

Then again, the whole credit card system which is popular in the US is even more hilariously insecure (you only need a picture of the card!!) and it doesn't seem to have stopped anyone.

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#74

Post by maxerickson »

markbnj wrote: post #12
joshstrange wrote: post #3

I had the beta and a final Coin and neither one were reliable enough to to trust. You HAVE to carry backup cards which more or less defeats the purpose. Then there is the slightly embarrassing, extremely annoying "Your card didn't work/Do you have another card this one isn't swiping". I've stopped carrying my coin altogether because if you have the cards you might as well use the real ones (I tried for 7+ months to u…

They probably didn't have the ability to test it on nearly enough readers, given that there are literally thousands. They may also be running into some timing issues based on how people swipe. Those are things you sometimes just can't work out barring wide scale testing and adoption.

A comment here indicates that it simply won't work at a bunch of retailers:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/off-topic/coin-vs-pl...

A quick search confirms the caveat:

https://support.onlycoin.com/hc/en-us/articles/204413864-Whe...

(first link noted from a previous discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9879699 )

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#75

Post by dandelany »

mbreese wrote: post #41
stephengillie wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, magnetic swipe readers are EVERYwhere. And the collection of credit and debit networks connect every reader with almost every bank. It "just works" everywhere, and it's "impossible" for a retailer to be unable to connect to your bank. -Chip-and-pin? The card reader probably can't read it. -Apple/Google wallet and similar services? The card reader probably doesn't have an antenna for it. (Especially small…

Mag stripe readers are everywhere, but the banks have already started migrating over to chip and pin cards (with mag-stripe for backwards compatibility) for new issues. There are still older cards out there that won't expire for probably ~5 years or so, so I expect to see mag stripe readers around for at least that long. But it's fair to call it deprecated, even in the US. However, the transition is coming to the US…

I keep hearing this, but I got a new Capital One card in the mail literally 2 weeks ago, and still no chip. Same with my Schwab card which is < a year old. I don't get it. (I live in New York FWIW)

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#76

Post by tracker1 »

joshstrange wrote: post #3

I had the beta and a final Coin and neither one were reliable enough to to trust. You HAVE to carry backup cards which more or less defeats the purpose. Then there is the slightly embarrassing, extremely annoying "Your card didn't work/Do you have another card this one isn't swiping". I've stopped carrying my coin altogether because if you have the cards you might as well use the real ones (I tried for 7+ months to u…

I've actually been meaning to try google wallet (pretty much everywhere visa/mc tap to pay and apple pay are available too) for some time, and just never think to do it... when I saw the coin card, I thought it was an interesting idea, but to be honest, I think having something along with your phone is probably more useful, since anyone with a coin card is likely to also have their phone.

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#77

Post by thaumaturgy »

pjc50 wrote: post #69
stephengillie wrote: post #4

What Coin has managed to do in such a thin package is really impressive. It’s a shame they weren’t able to do it more reliably. It's a really cool idea. I actually wonder what the technological hurdle was that held them back - mechanical (reliably magnetizing the coils, easy-to-break components due to narrow size), software (programming issues), or QA (reliable SoCs, reliable builds, reliable solders)?

I suspect flexing the PCB caused the usual problems of hairline cracks in solder joints, resulting in intermittent faults.

If that's true, I wonder if something like a paper circuit would work? e.g., http://www.instructables.com/id/Paperduino-20-with-Circuit-S...

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#78

Post by martingordon »

joshstrange wrote: post #3

I had the beta and a final Coin and neither one were reliable enough to to trust. You HAVE to carry backup cards which more or less defeats the purpose. Then there is the slightly embarrassing, extremely annoying "Your card didn't work/Do you have another card this one isn't swiping". I've stopped carrying my coin altogether because if you have the cards you might as well use the real ones (I tried for 7+ months to u…

Even worse, I've had servers flat out refuse to accept it. I couldn't even imagine opening a tab at a bar with it either: It looks too fake to be taken as collateral, and I don't know if the magnetic strip still works if the card is locked, meaning I would have to have another round-trip interaction with the bartender.

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#79

Post by jonknee »

dboreham wrote: post #58
fluidcruft wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, all of my banks have already replaced my credit cards with chip-and-pin capable ones in preparation for October's rebalancing of fraud liability between merchants and banks. I can't imagine merchants will be too keen to accept these Coin cards.

Are you sure? I ask because the majority of US card issuers have opted to use chip&signature, not chip&pin cards. In my wallet I only have one chip&pin card (Well Fargo). The rest are chip&signature. Whether or not they send you a PIN is a good indicator of which auth method the card supports.

It's the chip that's the issue, not the PIN. If a merchant requires a chip (which they will at some point) you can't use something like the Coin.

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#80

Post by Globz »

jackmaney wrote: post #66
Globz wrote: post #16

This is the first time I am reading about this product but why mag stripe over smart cards? isn't it less secure and deprecated technology? it seems very useful but relying on mag stripe isn't the best move, no? Perhaps they couldn't "switch cards" while using smart cards so mag stripe was the only solution?

> isn't it less secure and deprecated technology? Uhhhh...no? I've lived in the US my entire life, and while I've seen pin and chip readers, I've never had a pin and chip card, never known anyone who has ever had one, and never seen one used. Ever.

Here in Canada we mostly use chip-and-pin cards, glad to be ahead of US on this one.
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