A world without work • Hacker News Board

Re: A world without work

#71

Post by Animats » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:27 PM UTC

VLM wrote: post #23

rcarrigan87 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does capitalism have an ending? Maybe we can envision some kind of ending on earth. But what about when we start colonizing other planets? What new jobs begin to be created as we step outside earth.

Never forget Balkanization or fragmentation. For example 90% of the population has been permanently kicked out of big city coastal real estate and will never, ever, live there or own property there via hyperinflation in real estate prices. Yet, the sun still rises in the east and 90% of the countries population lives on, under different goals and interests. Its highly likely crony capitalism as we know it will never…

"the NYSE will never go away"

It went away years ago, after a merger with Euronext and a few more mergers. The parent company, ICE, is in Atlanta and owns 23 exchanges. The NYSE trading floor is a stage set now. There are still some people there, but they're using computers. The webcam feed is no longer available.

Here's a picture of the NYSE trading floor from June 2015:[1] It's now a quiet co-working space for traders. One guy on a tablet, a few on desktops, two people talking, one walking, many empty seats. That's the NYSE today.

All the real action happens inside several data centers in New Jersey.

[1] https://usatmarkets.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/wall_street-...

Re: A world without work

#72

Post by washedup » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:27 PM UTC

methodover wrote: post #55

I really enjoyed reading this article. I've been thinking quite a bit about work recently. I'm just about to turn 29, and by all accounts I'm fairly successful: I graduated college with a worthless liberal arts degree just as the Great Recession was beginning. After an unsuccessful attempt at copywriting for a couple years, I managed to learn programming. A few years after that and I'm the leader of the engineering t…

The key to a happy and successful life is to find meaningful ways to spend your time. Meaningful to you, of course. Because of the monetary system we live in, usually a large chunk of our time needs to be devoted towards earning money, or at least finding a way to eat, live comfortably, and reproduce (too scientific sounding?). Buddhist monks will be able to show you other ways to enjoy life outside that system, however. That's always an option.

Work is not misery as long as you believe in, and are constantly engaged with, your work. It becomes misery when it doesn't align with your needs and expectations.

The biggest question is, what would you rather do? What would you do with your free time if money wasn't an issue?

If you are happy with your product, then what is it about the work environment? Does simply managing people stress you out? Or, is it the expectation that "I should" enjoy what I do because it is successful?

Re: A world without work

#73

Post by misterbwong » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:27 PM UTC

methodover wrote: post #55

I really enjoyed reading this article. I've been thinking quite a bit about work recently. I'm just about to turn 29, and by all accounts I'm fairly successful: I graduated college with a worthless liberal arts degree just as the Great Recession was beginning. After an unsuccessful attempt at copywriting for a couple years, I managed to learn programming. A few years after that and I'm the leader of the engineering t…

I understand the sentiment but I think your conclusion is misguided. You're not trading your life/focus/attention/time for money, you're trading it for what you can do with that money. Money is just a temporary store of value. It's worthless unless you use it for something. That something is what you're working for. Whether that's worth trading your time for is the real question you need to answer.

Re: A world without work

#74

Post by wehadfun » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:28 PM UTC

Only read very small part but author talks about Youngtown and says that when the local steel industry went bust suicide and assumingly criminal behavior increased.

To me this is because of loss of income not so much the loss of having to report to work. Does the article talk about why loss of income was not pointed to as the reason for the problems?

Re: A world without work

#75

Post by daodedickinson » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:28 PM UTC

methodover wrote: post #55

I really enjoyed reading this article. I've been thinking quite a bit about work recently. I'm just about to turn 29, and by all accounts I'm fairly successful: I graduated college with a worthless liberal arts degree just as the Great Recession was beginning. After an unsuccessful attempt at copywriting for a couple years, I managed to learn programming. A few years after that and I'm the leader of the engineering t…

Stop blaming work, which for thousands of years has been endurable and honorable for humans. Study philosophy seriously, and avoid philosophical paths that manifestly cause depression.

Re: A world without work

#76

Post by felixgallo » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:28 PM UTC

VLM wrote: post #44

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A general purpose AI/Robot will just do what it does here, there, and much cheaper and better than some guy stuffed into a pressurized suit who can only work x amount of hours per day and is easily injured and in constant need of food/air/medical. If space migration happens it will be with an army or robots per person because of how hostile conditions are for delicate mammals outside of earth. I don't think the futur…

"hostile conditions ... for delicate mammals ... outside of earth" Lets try a test of the general principle. Cross off the last three words and see if Canada, Australia, the western half of the USA, are all uninhabited. If they are, then no one will live in space. If people live in the desert in Nevada, then its highly likely people will (eventually) live in space.

It rains in the American Southwest, and collects in rivers and lakes; for example, Lake Mead, which supplies Las Vegas with 90% of its water.

The American Southwest is also protected by the Earth's magnetic fields, which shield the planet from 99.9% of the radiation in space.

So it's a little more complicated than that.

Re: A world without work

#77

Post by agumonkey » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:28 PM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #64

agumonkey wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also increase in comfort and development is correlated with smaller children number, so an hyper modern world may have smaller population "momentum". There's a statistician with a TED talk about that. Maybe that one http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_best_stats_y... I cant recall.

Right. I have no children, that I know of. I never much wanted to focus on money, and raising children didn't appeal to me as a hobby or avocation.

You may be a niche though. Some people did want kids as part of the family tradition, but not too much so they could play the career game. In a world without work, people wouldn't have that dream so how would they fill the void. Maybe a little bit more children (goes against my previous argument), or art, social bonding, travel.

Re: A world without work

#78

Post by rokhayakebe » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:28 PM UTC

waxymonkeyfrog wrote: post #10

falcolas wrote: post #4

Some interesting points - I would have the following questions for the author (I didn't see them answered) How many of the ills observed in non-working adults are due (at least in part) to the culture of "your value is based on the job you hold"? How many people sit around watching TV because that's what they can afford to do, or because their peers are unavailable at the same times? How many teens revert to crime be…

Hi Falcolas, this is Derek Thompson, the author of the piece. 1. The quick answer is that we don't know how much of the misery of not working is from the financial shortfall of unemployment, vs the failure to meet a cultural expectation to work, vs some inherent need to feel productive, because it's just very hard to tease out the difference in reliable studies. How, eg, would you test this for prime-age adults at a…

How, eg, would you test this for prime-age adults at a time when income is tied to work and there is a cultural expectation that everybody work?

How about interviewing early retirees? Those who have reached early financial independence and decided it was time to just not work any longer.

Re: A world without work

#79

Post by snowwrestler » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:29 PM UTC

methodover wrote: post #55

I really enjoyed reading this article. I've been thinking quite a bit about work recently. I'm just about to turn 29, and by all accounts I'm fairly successful: I graduated college with a worthless liberal arts degree just as the Great Recession was beginning. After an unsuccessful attempt at copywriting for a couple years, I managed to learn programming. A few years after that and I'm the leader of the engineering t…

> I'm trading in the best years of my life, my focus, my attention, my time, my life for money. That's the nature of this transaction. I'm trading in this short life I get for cash. I feel like a prostitute.

Money is unavoidable, so if you're going to be unhappy about earning it, you're going to have an unhappy life no matter what.

I kind of doubt money is the issue...you might just be looking for inspiration.

Maybe look into the nonprofit world. These are organizations that stand for something, and most are in desperate need of technical talent. You won't make as much money but if you can work for a cause you believe in, you might feel your work is more worthwhile.

Re: A world without work

#80

Post by nosuchthing » Tue, Jun 23, 2015, 9:30 PM UTC

It seems like the mass amount of money dumped into alternative advertising models is increasingly pushing the 'Attention Economy'[1]. Video games designed by behavioral psychologists to be addicting, compulsive, and time consuming [2].

Advertising IS attention economics, but now it's being said we're reaching peak advertising and that the attention of the masses is saturated.

Amazon recently begin experimenting with paying writers based upon feedback of single pages being viewed long enough. [4]

I could only hope for the money previously allocated to garner everyone's attention for brand recognition may now be channeled into further product development and research, as it's becoming harder to rely solely on brand name identity with easier access to information on alternative products and review websites like anandtech or thewirecutter. Although I have a hunch much of that development will be into building more invasive advertising and attention economy games - [5]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_Economy

[2] http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/21/candy-crus...

[3] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/magazine/angry-birds-farmv...

[4] https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A156OS90J7RDN

[5] https://vimeo.com/14533403

[6] http://pastebin.com/jJZVxfRm