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No Time to Be Nice at Work

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Re: No Time to Be Nice at Work

#71
post #6

I have to say: working in a civil work environment makes a huge difference in terms of job satisfaction and job performance. Civility works for the business, the worker, and the customer. Nobody really benefits from incivility except for the arrogant power-monger over the very short term.

The vast majority of my friends and acquaintances that are in the tech industry have changed jobs with work environment (co-workers they like, friendly environment, etc.) as among the most important factors, even above compensation. That seems to be universally true of almost every developer or engineer I've come across. Work environment is a huge factor in where someone works and how long they decide to stay there or whether or not they decide to leave. Given that, engendering a friendly work environment seems like one of the most cost-effective ways to bring in and retain talented engineers.

Re: No Time to Be Nice at Work

#72
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States is the way it is because this is the only way to survive within the framework of competitive capitalism. European attempts at cultural protectionism will fail as market pressures force them to adopt American customs and habits. This is just basic economics. American companies ruthlessly optimize for profit. Any attempt to optimize for anything else will take away from the potential for profit. In a…

Employee happiness is absolutely relevant to P&L. Happy employees are more productive and have less turnover. Companies already know this. It becomes a game of "how little must we do" but it's far from the sweatshop imagery I saw while reading your comment. I grew up middle class in middle America and it's not just the SF tech scene I've made my career in; I grew up in a world of company picnics and "4 10s" work week…

> Happy employees are more productive

I understand studies on this have a different take: Making employees more productive makes them happier, but making employees happier doesn't make them more productive.

Re: No Time to Be Nice at Work

#73
On the other hand the fake niceness of some workplaces is just as repugnant. And it makes it harder to find out where you stand and what needs to be done. I fully agree there is no need for hostility in the workplace and it shouldn't be tolerated. At the same time I believe many people have become oversensitive and forgotten the massaging of their personal feelings are not the reason a company exists.

Re: No Time to Be Nice at Work

#74
post #6

I have to say: working in a civil work environment makes a huge difference in terms of job satisfaction and job performance. Civility works for the business, the worker, and the customer. Nobody really benefits from incivility except for the arrogant power-monger over the very short term.

Re. civility, I've had very good results in reducing stress between both parties by clearly separating the defects in the work from the person / people involved. I think that's the key because I've had terrible experiences when that did not happen, when I was either blaming or blamed (seemingly) by teammates personally for any mistakes. Still, I'd rather receive any honest feedback than none at all, even if it is presented incorrectly and callous. Holding back feedback to be nice can grow problems and erode trust.

Re: No Time to Be Nice at Work

#75
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is why? What is the purpose of "work work work" at all costs?

Why do you think there's a purpose? The real world is not a narrative. It doesn't have a beginning, middle, and end; there is no rising or falling action; there are no stunning third act reveals; there are no happily ever afters. This is just the behavior that emerges (seemingly inevitably) from the ruleset of capitalism. It's like evolution -- the winners keep winning and the losers drop out. Eventually people adopt…

"The real world" is also in large part a set of habits and decisions, just like capitalism is simply decisions people make each day, instead of making different decisions. As would be any other mode of relating to one another.

> the "why" is, from the lowest worker to the CEO, "if I don't do my job well I'll be fired, and my family will starve."

That reminded me of two things: a senior nurse responding to her boss saying "you have to X" with "I have to die some day, that's all I have to do" (she was very good at her job too, she just insisted on that being her choice), but also this: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ While it is about machines mostly, this "inevitability" of a supposedly "external" system you seem to be already describing, and I'm not sure I see a meaningful difference between "work/profit for the sake of work/profit" and this:

Everything the human race has worked for – all of our technology, all of our civilization, all the hopes we invested in our future – might be accidentally handed over to some kind of unfathomable blind idiot alien god that discards all of them, and consciousness itself, in order to participate in some weird fundamental-level mass-energy economy that leads to it disassembling Earth and everything on it for its component atoms.

To me capitalism is far from being "last man standing".. just consider all the PR blurb by corporations and politicians. Sure, there's a lot of appeals to egotism or pure numbers as well, but also to all sorts of fuzzy things that apparently do matter enough to enough people that even the most depraved have to pay at least lip service to them.

> It's like evolution -- the winners keep winning and the losers drop out. Eventually people adopt the winning strategies.

I'm thinking it's also a bit like narcissism and other personality disorders; abuse leads to more abuse. And it becomes a cycle: in a constant state of warfare of all against all, becoming more ruthless is indeed "winning" -- but from another perspective, it might be getting stuck in a very low local optimum. My point being that we have a basically infititely big universe around us, that is infinitely hostile to life and also infinitely loaded with resources and adventures -- an infinite enemy to compete with, if you will, instead of severely crippling our ability as a "team" (and I don't just mean humans) to do so by sniping each other.

Imagine a PvE game with friendly fire turned on -- if a bunch of people decided that it's a Free-For-All deathmatch game and start ganging up and spawn killing, then that's what it'll effectively be. Even in an infinite world, they'd never get far from spawn, or discover the more interesting and refined game mechanics. And then the free beta ends, the servers get shut down -- "thanks for playing, I hope you made the best of it" -- the people who had the biggest pile of loot and skulls in this Lord of the Flies scenario would still think they "won". Yeah, they were vastly richer than most others, but compared to what they missed out on, they are infinitely poor.

While I'm rambling, I would say evolution would not stop even in the most utopian of hippie societies, simply because there are infinite of hostile places to "conquer"... and in the long run, there are no "winning" strategies anyway, everything dies. But if there is no joy along the way, what's the point? Just because there is no "ever after" doesn't mean there can be no "happily". It somehow being preferable to die with the most toys, or being the last one to turn out the light, the very idea of winners and loosers is ALSO a made up story, a narrative, IMHO. We are stuck with giving life meaning anyway, might as well give it meaning that fulfills us in the here and now AND allows us to reach higher heights, instead living in an endless, aimless race where nobody ever feels happy, until they inevitably get knocked out of it, by others or by the heat death of the universe.

Evolution lead among other things to our cognition, to empathy, to cooperation, to joy. These are higher-level functions rather than basic ones. I don't mean to say that makes them "better", because evolution doesn't care either way, but I personally like them lots. And while children for example also test their boundaries, they generally don't seem to "intend" to compete with or exploit their parents or others, they want to learn and be happy and make others happy. That's my impression, which might be worthless, but my impression it is. Some get neglected, some get broken, and those inevitably cannot see more than what they can see, they think everybody else is also empty or hurting inside, and just seeking to exploit others to get ahead - but I would claim (or wishfully think? I grant it may be the latter) that this is rather unhealthy narcissism than "perfectly natural", and rather the result of a limitation or trauma, while conversely having empathy and compassion don't preclude having elbows if need be.. it just means having more options than just elbows.

Re: No Time to Be Nice at Work

#76

This is to be expected when the working environment gets as cut-throat as the American workplace has become. Blame it on inequality, blame it on the puritanical drive to overwork, blame it on the zeal to squeeze every last bit of profit. It's just one other symptom of how anyone who is not an oligarch in this society is meant as an expendable resource to be crushed by the ubermensch. My only hope is that the USA fail…

This is nothing unique to the United States (or to the 21st century). Just read a history book about another time and place. The workplace here and now is far kinder and gentler than almost any time or place in history (with the possible exception of contemporary, developed nations). In the good old days, children worked and in horrible jobs, such as coal mines; workers regularly lost limb and life; 7 day weeks and i…

>The workplace here and now is far kinder and gentler than almost any time or place in history (with the possible exception of contemporary, developed nations).

We had kinder and gentler workplaces 30-40 years ago.

We can thank the business community for destroying our unions for that, and neoliberal economists for providing a plausible sounding rationale for why it was in our best interests.

Also, while we haven't quiet brought back debtors prisons, child labor, back breaking labor and 18 hours days, we are certainly headed squarely in that direction.

Re: No Time to Be Nice at Work

#77
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think there's a purpose? The real world is not a narrative. It doesn't have a beginning, middle, and end; there is no rising or falling action; there are no stunning third act reveals; there are no happily ever afters. This is just the behavior that emerges (seemingly inevitably) from the ruleset of capitalism. It's like evolution -- the winners keep winning and the losers drop out. Eventually people adopt…

"The real world" is also in large part a set of habits and decisions, just like capitalism is simply decisions people make each day, instead of making different decisions. As would be any other mode of relating to one another. > the "why" is, from the lowest worker to the CEO, "if I don't do my job well I'll be fired, and my family will starve." That reminded me of two things: a senior nurse responding to her boss sa…

The thing is, I think, there are a lot of would be spawn campers. Capitalism keeps most of them busy farming resources

Re: No Time to Be Nice at Work

#78
post #8

This is to be expected when the working environment gets as cut-throat as the American workplace has become. Blame it on inequality, blame it on the puritanical drive to overwork, blame it on the zeal to squeeze every last bit of profit. It's just one other symptom of how anyone who is not an oligarch in this society is meant as an expendable resource to be crushed by the ubermensch. My only hope is that the USA fail…

The United States is the way it is because this is the only way to survive within the framework of competitive capitalism. European attempts at cultural protectionism will fail as market pressures force them to adopt American customs and habits. This is just basic economics. American companies ruthlessly optimize for profit. Any attempt to optimize for anything else will take away from the potential for profit. In a…

>This is just basic economics.

"Basic economics" as some people call it, is a religion, not a science.

Basic neoliberalism, as taught in econ 101, is just as much a shallow pretext for maintaining existing power structures as Stalinism/Marxism was in the Soviet Union, and its predictive power is close to non-existent.

Guess why, for example, David Koch donated to Florida State University and then demanded the right to determine their economics syllabus? So he gets to dictate what counts as "basic economics".

Re: No Time to Be Nice at Work

#79
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States is the way it is because this is the only way to survive within the framework of competitive capitalism. European attempts at cultural protectionism will fail as market pressures force them to adopt American customs and habits. This is just basic economics. American companies ruthlessly optimize for profit. Any attempt to optimize for anything else will take away from the potential for profit. In a…

Economic protectionism has been an integral part of U.S. policy since the 1850s or so. Politicians were pretty big on tariffs and land law acts for nearly a century, though they have since declined in favor of gunboat diplomacy.

It's also how every single one of the Asian tigers built themselves up from 3rd world countries to 1st world countries.

There's a reason why Thailand and South Korea started off in the same place and South Korea developed. That reason will profoundly irritate anybody who pledges allegiance to the holy altar of free markets, though.

Re: No Time to Be Nice at Work

#80

Aggressive behavior is the norm when working as a consultant. You have to know that it's not personal and that part of it is negotiation on the part of the client, part of it is anger on the part of the client, some of it is just due to poor personality, some of it due to your misunderstanding of the situation and culture. Most people are not fit to work in a high-stress, aggressive environment, but some of us are. A…

>I worked as a 'clean up' consultant in Europe for a couple of years - going to clients that had failing projects and were desperate to bring in a developer to get the project back on track. My job was 75% calming the client down and making them feel loved and 25% programming.

How did you get into this if you don't mind me asking? Before I started programming (and went back to school), I worked in customer service/technical support for several years where 90% of my job was calming people down. I've also done plenty of contract work, so I think I'd be pretty good at what you described.

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