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Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

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Re: Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

#71
Like the general trolly problem, this formulation of the self-driving car problem assumes some agents are passive. The trolly problem assumes nobody is trying to rescue the potential victims. This formulation of the self-driving car problem assumes the school bus and other vehicles are passive.

Thus the conventional trolly problem doesn't really do the problem of self-driving car decision trees justice. The school bus isn't a dumb trolly. When your car is heading toward the school bus, the school bus will also running down it's decision tree and the best outcome based on its 15 passengers may be to take you out directly rather than run the risk of miscalculating what will happen if your car dives into the guardrail. Which is to say, that statistical predictions bring confidence intervals into play.

I believe this is why trolly problems in general reveal more about their formulation than about our ethical reasoning. We will throw a switch to shunt the trolly because the bad outcome will remain in the future and the possibility of changing circumstances remains very real. We know from experience that any of our predictions may be fallible and that the more temporally remote the event the more our prediction is fallible. Pushing the fat man off the bridge elicits a different reaction: the outcome is immediate and our prediction less fallible.

Re: Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

#72
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 4/28/2006 Radio Lab (PBS Amazing Podcast) did a show on morality. They tell the moral choice people will make: The program begins with a moral conundrum. You're working with a crew doing track repairs (presumably, using heavy equipment such that you can't hear much else) when you happen to look up to see a locomotive rushing towards five of your buddies who are working on the tracks. But just as quickly you realiz…

I honestly think that apparent flip-flop comes down entirely to how terribly ineffective the large human sounds at stopping the train. Telling people to pretend it works is not an effective measure. People can't cancel their biases just from being told to do so, and a bias against such an awful plan is quite reasonable.

Your explanation makes sense, but I was going to go with "we're fine flipping a switch, but actually pushing a person is taboo".

Re: Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that would be a bad robocar. I've chosen to hit animals, rather than swerving and possibly losing control, on numerous occasions. A robocar that would rather total itself is faulty. Then again a robocar that would choose to kill a child is also faulty. Until they can reliably tell a child from a dog, robocars will not be ready for general use.

That's a high bar. A human driver with a split second to decide may not be able to do that consciously. Maybe robocars should only have to do as well as a human driver?

Manufacturers' liability for lawsuits would seem to require such a high bar? Eventually industry might be able to change the law such that the lives of children in the road are devalued (or perhaps such that animals in the road are valued more highly than car passengers?), but that will take time. Before that happens, a robocar that can't tell the difference just might have to drive real slow.

Re: Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

#74
post #59
post #23

I (perhaps somewhat naively) assumed that a self-driving car would be programmed to prioritise the occupants of the vehicle (as that most closely emulates the likely reactions of a human driver in that situation). Self-driving cars are likely to be safer than human drivers anyway, so one has to consider how much risk there is of a situation like the Trolley Problem arising - i.e. not much.

So here's the thing. The first time that an accident kills pedestrians with a self driving car involved the creator of that car will be open to a lawsuit. And in court the question of what that car should have been programmed to prioritize will come up. A response of we tried to emulate the likely reactions of a human driver in this situation won't hold up. The whole point of a self driving car as you said is that th…

Actually, that's a good point - I hadn't considered the legal ramifications of such a stance. It's interesting that you mention people seeking damages from the creator of the car's software, because that makes the entire situation more complex.

As for the concept of "safer to the community as a whole" - well, the idea is that they're a safer product overall, and this is mostly targeted at the individual (i.e. "if you own a self-driving car, you're less likely to die"). If people have the knowledge that their cars may (in certain situations) elect to kill them in preference of others, then I doubt that self-driving cars will sell particularly well.

Re: Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

#75
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think slippery is an issue for computers. We have the quick on off brakes of ABS Braking. We also have AWD of Subaru for a decade that can transfer power to other wheels if it starts to slip. Also it can steer into a slid quicker and more precise than 99% of people right now.

You are quite correct. The main problem right now is -- there is no way for you to know how any particular autonomous driving system will handle it. With every second auto maker and start-up claiming to have independently developed super-duper auto-drive technology, I think it will get worse before it gets better. Without standardised testing frameworks (ie. sending my car's autonomous driving system through a simula…

In the same regard I think in the next 20 years there will not be human driven trucks, buses and anything over a certain weight, because the cost of life to not do that will be over whelming.

This is because one thing. They all can stop quickly and will have their own lane on all Interstates.

Re: Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Four years ago I was driving down a hill in insanely slick weather. Though I was driving very slowly, the car skidded, and was heading into an extremely busy street. I had enough steering to put the car into a tree, slowly, rather risk something really serious. Not quite a Trolley Problem -- _I_ was among those better off by cutting the losses. But yes, weird situations and choices do emerge.

How did the insurance work out for you on that one?

I think they paid but regarded it as my fault. I didn't fight it, had too much else going on.
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