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“Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

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Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#71

Post by jpatokal »

dudul wrote: post #25

“Thank you for coming to my home” actually meant, “It’s time for you to get out of my house.” Seriously? Find new friends. When I thank people after hosting an event I do mean to thank them for choosing to spend their time with me. I feel like this post is blently dishonest and caricaturing just to tell a nice story.

I think you're reading a bit too much into that. If you're at a social event, when do you hear "Thank you so much for coming" from the host? Usually when you're leaving, or as the writer says, when it's time for you to leave.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#72

Post by klodolph »

littletimmy wrote: post #49

As a non-American, this was one of the biggest culture shocks I faced. On the surface, relationships in the US seem very transactional (not making the judgment that they are really transactional). For example, in the US a son would thank his parents for paying his college tuition. In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his…

You may be reading a lot of value into this distinction. To me, as an American, equality in a peer relationship is important but bookkeeping and debt is destructive. The 50:50 split is just an ongoing division of labor, it is explicitly NOT debt because it never accumulates. Any "thank you" is an acknowledgment of gratitude or merely a polite exit to a conversation one doesn't want to continue. The debt that children have to their parents is to be paid to the next generation.

It's another one of those cultural quirks that seems more telling than it actually is. For example, because Russians don't smile to strangers, they're cold and unfriendly. Or because Americans do smile to strangers, we're untrustworthy and insincere.

The reason we think it's so big is because we're translating the literal contents (smile, "thank you") but ending up with a completely different meaning or set of pragmatics. and then we miss the ability to use set phrases in our native language. Just like you can say "pleased to meet you" in Enhlish, but you can't say "よろしくお願いします".

Edit: to clarify, cultures are different and language reflects that, but I think a lot of set phrases reflect history more than they reflect living culture.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#73

Post by StavrosK »

harperlee wrote: post #63
StavrosK wrote: post #34

In Greece, saying "please" can sound condescending. You pretty much want to avoid saying please, and politeness comes from the phrasing. "Can you bring me a glass of water" is the polite version of "bring me a glass of water", although the latter is also usually made polite by adding "re" (to friends) or adding "a bit" ("bring me a glass of water for a bit", it doesn't translate well). Saying "please" to anyone you'r…

In spain we have a mix of both; although it is very normal to say it formulaically to e.g. a shop clerk, we are also very often very direct and don't use it, just using tone or phrasing - and foreigners (including spanish-speaking ones) are usually shocked by how rude we seem to be.

I've found that Greek translates pretty much exactly to Spanish (culturally and linguistically), so I just say "puedes traerme " or, at most, "quisiera un ".

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#74

Post by notNow »

My two cents:

Usually, acting very polite and formal in informal settings could send the wrong message to people around you from certain cultures as it would be interpreted as the speaker establishing barriers between him/her and the rest and that he/she views them as strangers not as friends which is totally off-putting.

The problem manifests actually in formal settings where some cultures don't have these "lubricants" such as "thanks, please ..etc" in place to ease everyday situations. So, when you expect a simple "thank you" like for helping someone on the street as a small gesture of gratitude towards you and you don't get it, you don't really know exactly if they're being deliberately rude to you and sending their message very clear or they're just being "natural" and "easygoing" i.e. being themselves.

You can't really tell and it's just a reckless form of gambling to take offense at their acts. So, I just give them the benefit of the doubt and assume no malice intended.

Lastly and I speak only from my observations and experiences, some Indians are "obtuse" for the lack of a better word and it seems that most of the social cues that you expect to be interpreted very easily by everyone are completely lost on them but from what I understand now, these people usually come from rural areas and lower socio-economic backgrounds.

So, you basically should not really put too much thought into their processes. That's how they've been raised and therefore are products of their environment. Just move on!

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#75

Post by glandium »

jmadsen wrote: post #16
jmadsen wrote: post #12

Perhaps he doesn't understand that "thank you" is usually meant as a simple, polite acknowledgement. A heartfelt expression of gratitude in English is said not with a stock phrase, but by stopping, looking at the person, and explaining your gratitude to them. He is confusing our stock phrase with something that is an entirely different concept.

If I may extend my own post for a moment, this is a common problem of trying to translate words & phrases directly. For example, most people know that "Arigato" is Japanese for "Thank you". Except that's really wrong. Arigato is inappropriate in most cases, and "Sumasen" or variations should be used. But if you tried to translate them via the dictionary, you'd be quite confused as arigato comes from "thank" and su(mi…

Sumasen is likely regional. I've never heard it said, but it has the same root as sumimasen. In spoken "standard" japanese, you'll hear "sumimasen" or "suimasen", which is a common deformation because it's easier to pronounce. And indeed, its root is "to finish something" (済む), while its meaning is large, including "Sorry" and "Thank you" in english.

Arigatou, literally, means "difficult to be/have" (有り難う (arigatou) is an euphonic change (onbin/音便) of 有り難い (arigatai; ari/aru: be/have...; ~gatai: difficult), which translated like this is just completely weird, but so is literal translation.

Arigatou is fine in many more cases than you claim it to be, but yes, Sumimasen can be appropriate in many cases where you would say "Thank you" in english.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#76

Post by nashashmi »

z02d wrote: post #50

I asked some friends from Indian (Jaipur, Pune, Delhi) and they do not confirm this.

Maybe because he did not explain it simply and purely. You do not "thank" people who are close to you; helping and favors should simply be a common practice.

"Thank you" is said to people who you cannot return the favor to, or do not expect them from them any sort of kindness.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#77

Post by Dowwie »

littletimmy wrote: post #49

As a non-American, this was one of the biggest culture shocks I faced. On the surface, relationships in the US seem very transactional (not making the judgment that they are really transactional). For example, in the US a son would thank his parents for paying his college tuition. In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his…

Better? That depends on what socioeconomic sphere you're in. This kind of familial dependency protects entrenched interests. If you don't care about upward mobility and social progress, it may suit you.

It has produced some interesting outcomes over history:

Historically, the fate of family members in Russia was deeply intertwined. With this government-sponsored arrangement, family members of "revolutionaries" would be punished. This was an effective device of the tsars for a long time. Eventually, though, they enforced familial punishment with the wrong family and created a formidable adversary -- V.I. Lenin. Creating Lenin The Revolutionary in a deeply disgruntled society was the tipping point.

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#79

Post by glandium »

kurthr wrote: post #67
jmadsen wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My "source" is 13 years in Japan living with Japanese wife, children & extended family :-) But I'm not going to argue - for example, it may just be that here in Kansai we use them differently. We would definitely say "sumasen" for the things you listed. Just shows how hard it is to get this down from textbooks.

I'm surprised you didn't mention the less formal Kansai local term: "oh-KIni" おおきに: It is also used as "Thank you" in casual situations, but my understanding is that it is literally "Excuse me". So much of proper speech is dependent on who you are with and their preferred idom. Of course formality in the case of uncertainty is usually preferred, but that can lead to both humor and embarrassment.

大きに (おおきに) is interestingly an abbreviated form of... 大きにありがとう (ookini arigatou), in which 大きに just means the same as とても (totemo), so "very". The equivalent in english would be to say "very much" instead of "Thank you very much".

Re: “Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

#80

Post by toothbrush »

darklajid wrote: post #39

Over here in Germany we even had an optional 'Cultural differences' workshop you could participate in, which discussed things - both for Germans and for people from the US, the presenter was from the US - that might seem awkward at first. The ~social fillwords~ were on the list. Lots of thank you / you're welcome plus the really irritating 'How are you?' variations. Wouldn't you find these differences between any cul…

> Lots of ... irritating 'How are you?' variations.

Pity that. I frequently ask people "how are you" at the beginning of a conversation, and it's very often ignored on the assumption that i'm using a formula, but i am usually genuinely curious ask to what's up, trying to get them to say something about themselves since the last time we spoke. Pity this idiom has suffered inflation, perhaps i should think of another to replace it.

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