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SpaceX cleared for US military launches

bbc.co.uk

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Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#71

Post by mikeash »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #68
nraynaud wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like they couldn't buy lifts onboard other NATO countries rockets, but I guess the US people don't know there are more than Russia and the US who can send rockets. Also, this paranoid stance is mildly worrying, because the US is the most weaponized country in the world, and one of the least shy country to use its arsenal, so if it also get a paranoid stance "all the world hate us", then we're all doomed.

>It's not like they couldn't buy lifts onboard other NATO countries rockets There is no NATO country, other than the US, with a manned space program. We don't live in a universe where the ESA's Hermes spacecraft worked out. I believe the Ariane 5 was supposed to be man-rated when Hermes was on the table, but going from that to a usable launch vehicle is a lot of time, money, and engineering work we could spend on our…

This certification is about launching unmanned US military payloads, not about manned spaceflight. As far as I know there's no technical reason Ariane 5 couldn't be used for them right now. I don't know why they're not being used, but if the decision to look for a new launch provider happened in the past couple of years then I don't see why you'd go for Arianespace over SpaceX.

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#72

Post by drzaiusapelord »

ryanlol wrote: post #60
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, you are very welcome not to buy our rockets, iphones, software, and processors if you want to protest our foreign policy. We're not buying Putin's stuff, so don't buy ours. I don't see a problem with this. >overthrow governments The middle east is migrating to democracy and has the least amount of dictators in charge in my lifetime, thanks to US foreign policy. While I think foriegn policy is hard to jud…

>The middle east is migrating to democracy and has the least amount of dictators in charge in my lifetime How's that democracy working out in Libya and Syria? Many (probably pretty much everyone actually familiar with the situation) would argue that things were better under those dictators.

>How's that democracy working out in Libya and Syria?

How was India immediately after its colonial rule? Or South Korea after the war?

Its incredible how people conveniently forget how long transition periods are for societies that were previous non-democratic to a democratic one. Ten to fifteen years from now it will be a very different picture. Migrating to a democratic capatalistic economy is an incredible thing. GDP comparision between North and South Korea below:

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/sites/default/files/image...

It was rough for the South Koreans until the 1970s then its been all gravy. They went from war ravage rural wasteland to the most envious economy in about 20 years.

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#73

Post by shit_parade2 »

mikeash wrote: post #67
shit_parade2 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the middle East is chaos and death. Millions have fled their homes, museums and other priceless artifacts are destroyed or gone missing. An entire generation is coming to age knowing only war. Sounds like systematic destruction of a significant racial, religious, and national group to me. Iraq as a country is dust, so too Libya, Syria is also soon to follow. Sounds like genocide by your definition.

Genocide is not "an entire generation is coming to age knowing only war." It's more like "an entire generation is murdered." These disruptions do not threaten the continued existence of the Arab people or the Muslim faith. They do not threaten the continued existence of the shared culture. And they are not systematic i.e. done deliberately as part of a methodical plan to wipe out these groups. And just to be clear, b…

Your definition includes nationality. Libya, Iraq, and Syria are essentially gone.

I was never claiming the US has committed genocide, I simply asked how many deaths do you need to define one. WWII killed 6 million Jews, were only about an order of magnitude away and our current war has now gone on longer with no end in sight.

EDIT: I'm using _your_ definition dude, I don't think it is genocide, yet, but by your definition it certainly is.

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#74

Post by mikeash »

shit_parade2 wrote: post #73
mikeash wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genocide is not "an entire generation is coming to age knowing only war." It's more like "an entire generation is murdered." These disruptions do not threaten the continued existence of the Arab people or the Muslim faith. They do not threaten the continued existence of the shared culture. And they are not systematic i.e. done deliberately as part of a methodical plan to wipe out these groups. And just to be clear, b…

Your definition includes nationality. Libya, Iraq, and Syria are essentially gone. I was never claiming the US has committed genocide, I simply asked how many deaths do you need to define one. WWII killed 6 million Jews, were only about an order of magnitude away and our current war has now gone on longer with no end in sight. EDIT: I'm using _your_ definition dude, I don't think it is genocide, yet, but by your defi…

Your question is based on false premises because genocide isn't about raw numbers. It's based on a number of other things which don't fit the situation in the middle east.

How can you say "I was never claiming the US has committed genocide" while simultaneously, just one sentence before, saying that these countries should qualify?

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#75

Post by shit_parade2 »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #66
shit_parade2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps he should foster a Mexican coup, you know if the US doesn't like it they shouldn't of some the same in Ukraine. Get off your myopic high horse, both the US and Russia are imperial empires bathed in blood.

Comparing the US's relationship to Mexico with Putin's relationship to Ukraine is idiotic. Sadly, false equivalence is the typical Russiophile's last defense.

No its not. Regional power and influence is an important concept for sovereign countries. The US is more interested in insuring its neighbors are well behaved than if a country across the Atlantic likes it.

The same is true for Russia, if Russian-Canadian relations are tense that's not as nearly important as whether its neighbor Ukraine is bombing civilians on its border.

America is not exceptional, your argument requires we treat America and Russia with different moral thresholds, that's insane.

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#76

Post by mac01021 »

wahsd wrote: post #36

This seriously compromises the integrity of SpaceX. Even if they were to only support "national security" there is absolutely zero chance they can know whether they are actually supporting national security or global surveillance and oppression of human rights. What people don't realize is that we, SpaceX and Musk, are really no different whatsoever than any of the companies that have been chided for "working with th…

assassinate scientists?

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#77

Post by foobarqux »

yc1010 wrote: post #16
nraynaud wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Putin, Andropov, Chernenko, same stuff.

Not really. I was born and lived during the dying days of the USSR in 80s (left in mid 90s) Under communism everyone knew the system was a failure and everything was a sham, hell the jokes being made were hilarious. Now on the other hand in last few years everything in Russia under Tsar Putin went full retard mode with people actually believing the unashamed propaganda that the state controlled media puts out. Many R…

> People there now actually believe the evil Western boogeyman is out to get them.

Even Henry Kissinger believes their fears to be well-founded.

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#78

Post by drzaiusapelord »

shit_parade2 wrote: post #75
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing the US's relationship to Mexico with Putin's relationship to Ukraine is idiotic. Sadly, false equivalence is the typical Russiophile's last defense.

No its not. Regional power and influence is an important concept for sovereign countries. The US is more interested in insuring its neighbors are well behaved than if a country across the Atlantic likes it. The same is true for Russia, if Russian-Canadian relations are tense that's not as nearly important as whether its neighbor Ukraine is bombing civilians on its border. America is not exceptional, your argument req…

>America is not exceptional,

You're on an American site, on the American made internet, using American root DNS, using American made TCP/IP, using an American OS, writing in American English, and on a site about American entrepreneurship in the American silicon valley/tech industry discussing America's space program, which is the envy of the world.

There's a reason we're not all talking on some Chinese or Russian site.

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#79

Post by foobarqux »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #72
ryanlol wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The middle east is migrating to democracy and has the least amount of dictators in charge in my lifetime How's that democracy working out in Libya and Syria? Many (probably pretty much everyone actually familiar with the situation) would argue that things were better under those dictators.

>How's that democracy working out in Libya and Syria? How was India immediately after its colonial rule? Or South Korea after the war? Its incredible how people conveniently forget how long transition periods are for societies that were previous non-democratic to a democratic one. Ten to fifteen years from now it will be a very different picture. Migrating to a democratic capatalistic economy is an incredible thing.…

There is no population on earth that has been grateful for "democracy bombs" to have been dropped on them.

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#80

Post by sangnoir »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #66
shit_parade2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps he should foster a Mexican coup, you know if the US doesn't like it they shouldn't of some the same in Ukraine. Get off your myopic high horse, both the US and Russia are imperial empires bathed in blood.

Comparing the US's relationship to Mexico with Putin's relationship to Ukraine is idiotic. Sadly, false equivalence is the typical Russiophile's last defense.

I think he's comparing US's relationship with Ukraine to a hypothetical Russia-Mexico one. I'm not going to be as bold and say "US fostered the Ukranian coup", but I am certain they were very happy about it.

The deposed former president of Ukraine, who happened to be close to Russia, had been democratically elected - his removal most certainly wasn't democratic by any stretch of the imagination. You can tell infer the US's political attitudes if you parse the language of US media / politicians at the time. If they are "protesters" rather than "rioters" or "insurrectionists" - they are friends. I perfectly understand that it furthers US interest to pull out Ukraine from Russia's sphere of influence.

Just my $0.02, as an outsider.

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