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No Longer Wanting to Die

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Re: No Longer Wanting to Die

#71

Post by javajosh »

a3n wrote: post #45
foobarqux wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter much if a person is sad for no reason, no one wants to be around someone who is sad.

This didn't deserve a downvote, it's a good observation of the problem. If you're depressed, it's very hard for people to be around you, and that makes the depression worse.

Yep. In fact, I think that (apart from clinical practitioners who might find it fascinating) the people best positioned to help the depressed are those who've experienced it themselves, and overcome it.

Re: No Longer Wanting to Die

#72

Post by comrh »

Lithium actually did it for me. One week on it and the suicidal ideations disappeared. It is basically poisoning yourself though, can be pretty rough on your body.

Also the concept of "mindfulness" is so great for those ruminations that never seem to quiet down. Yoga, meditation, running, working out, all seemed to really feed into the idea of being "present".

Re: No Longer Wanting to Die

#73

Post by throwaway3301 »

cpncrunch wrote: post #39
Chinmayh wrote: post #7

I am not surprised that a treatment that is so effective to the author has remained unknown to him for so long. I have had feelings of suicide for the last 14 years. I personally hate meeting psychologists, because they can be so unpredictable. Some of the better ones prescribed me medicine, some of the worse ones, told me I had to stop crying and find solutions to my problems, that I was lazy. I was also told becaus…

Here are some suggestions that worked for me, and may (or may not) help. I find that depression -- at least for me -- has two main causes: [1] Excessive emotional response to bad situations (similar to what the author of this article is experiencing). and: [2] Insufficient motivation/goals/joy. My solution to [1] is twofold: mindfulness and resolution. Be aware that excessive negative emotional responses are bad (as…

Re: [2]

But what are you to do when you have no purpose in life? No motivating, goal-oriented activities that you enjoy? For many depressed people, including myself, everything seems pointless and therefore nothing has purpose and nothing is motivating or truly interesting.

No one really offers any good advice on this part of the solution and yet it's the most important part! Everyone seems to think that everyone must have something that interests them enough to chase a goal for the rest of their lives but I think the reality is that very few people have this. And furthermore motivation ebbs and flows, I have found that it's not very reliable and so a solution that involves it seems oversimplified to me.

Re: No Longer Wanting to Die

#74

Post by DanBC »

throwaway3301 wrote: post #73
cpncrunch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are some suggestions that worked for me, and may (or may not) help. I find that depression -- at least for me -- has two main causes: [1] Excessive emotional response to bad situations (similar to what the author of this article is experiencing). and: [2] Insufficient motivation/goals/joy. My solution to [1] is twofold: mindfulness and resolution. Be aware that excessive negative emotional responses are bad (as…

Re: [2] But what are you to do when you have no purpose in life? No motivating, goal-oriented activities that you enjoy? For many depressed people, including myself, everything seems pointless and therefore nothing has purpose and nothing is motivating or truly interesting. No one really offers any good advice on this part of the solution and yet it's the most important part! Everyone seems to think that everyone mus…

There's a concept of "social prescribing" being developed. So, if you need to go to a gym a doctor will give you a prescription which gives you cheaper access to a gym.

There are a bunch of organisations to provide "vocational services" for people with mental health problems. Vocational services doesn't just mean work based activity, it involves social and sports and etc stuff too. This used to be "day services" and was provided in sub-optimal ways. Usually it'd be in a room in a hospital or other mental health building, and there would be strict segregation so no members of the general community would use the room and people with a MH problem wouldn't use rooms in the wider community. There was little concept of progression or push.

The Sainsbury Centre for Mental Health did a great report and so now day services are better - although still no where near good enough.

My local area has "People and Places". They have a large allotment in a normal allotments place. They grow fruit and veg and flowers with other gardening work.

There's also the Independence Trust which run a variety of different groups and sign post to other groups.

Both these groups work with people at most stages of illness (not while they're detained under section in hospital, but pretty much everything else) and they can tailor the work to what the people feel able to do.

http://www.independencetrust.co.uk/

http://www.peopleandplacesglos.co.uk/

Re: No Longer Wanting to Die

#75

Post by rquantz »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #35
rquantz wrote: post #3

As someone who has suffered from moderate but not debilitating depression for much of my adulthood, one thing that has always stood in the way of getting treatment has been finding a damn therapist. Back when I was a broke, insurance-less musician, I went to inexpensive sessions with a student therapist who listened to me talk for a semester but offered very little in the way of help. Shortly after getting insurance…

Oh wow. That's even worse than the therapist I tried to see after getting out of undergrad and finding myself depressed with adulthood. I said that I was depressed with the thought that life after graduation consisted exclusively of work and materialism. He said I was being immature and should grow up. Psychotherapists and psychiatrists often seem to be utter shit at serving patients as normatively neutral medical pr…

Interesting, I'm not sure it's worse than your experience. I was pretty well equipped to discount the advice of a therapist pushing prayer and weird conspiracy theories. On the other hand, your therapist was an authority on mental health who was actually confirming some of the negative thoughts that depressed people often have. That would be a lot harder to defend against.

Re: No Longer Wanting to Die

#76

Post by DanBC »

alexashka wrote: post #70

I find it curious that what strikes me as the real reason for feeling depressed - his inability to handle anxiety and reliance on medication for it, was not the first paragraph, with multiple exclamation marks around it. THAT was the problem that got fixed as far as I can tell. There was also shame, feeling of inadequacy, etc but the real issue here seems to be that once you can handle a debilitating level of anxiety…

> I have met a number of people who have depression and it's usually the same story - being very defensive about whatever the root cause might be and if you probe them, they'll clamp up. It's almost like it hurts too much to admit that you are not ok.

There often isn't a root cause for depression. Asking people why they're depressed can feel like you're judging them - "What have you got to be depressed about?"

Re: No Longer Wanting to Die

#77

Post by DanBC »

cpncrunch wrote: post #28
colund wrote: post #19

Hacker News unfortunately seems to be more and more about depression/psychology and less and less about positive entrepreneurship and tech/programming. I want to be inspired.

I suspect that it might be because the people who are driven to be entrepreneurs also have a higher likelihood of suffering from depression.

Suicide is the biggest killer of men aged between 20-34, and 35 to 49, in the UK.

Rates are similarly high in the US - in 2013 one person died by suicide every 12 minutes.

I'm not sure that entrepreneurs have higher rates of depression or suicidality. I think that depression and suicide are just very very common.

Re: No Longer Wanting to Die

#78

Post by colund »

a3n wrote: post #44
colund wrote: post #19

Hacker News unfortunately seems to be more and more about depression/psychology and less and less about positive entrepreneurship and tech/programming. I want to be inspired.

You could just not read the articles that aren't interesting to you. Wishing that all/more of the articles are within your interests is essentially wishing that all/more of the people within the community are more like you. But in a community, that's unlikely. Or, you could read some of the articles that aren't interesting to you, as they'll have ideas and problems that might be outside of your immediate experience a…

Infact I have read lots of psychology books over the years. However I have found that I feel worse if I think too much about how I am and behave. I prefer to think about what I like to do since that feels less depressing and I have since become a much happier person. I posted my comment in a hope to find others with a similar feeling/experience about self-help vs well-being as opposites.

Re: No Longer Wanting to Die

#79

Post by twobits »

throwaway3301 wrote: post #73
cpncrunch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are some suggestions that worked for me, and may (or may not) help. I find that depression -- at least for me -- has two main causes: [1] Excessive emotional response to bad situations (similar to what the author of this article is experiencing). and: [2] Insufficient motivation/goals/joy. My solution to [1] is twofold: mindfulness and resolution. Be aware that excessive negative emotional responses are bad (as…

Re: [2] But what are you to do when you have no purpose in life? No motivating, goal-oriented activities that you enjoy? For many depressed people, including myself, everything seems pointless and therefore nothing has purpose and nothing is motivating or truly interesting. No one really offers any good advice on this part of the solution and yet it's the most important part! Everyone seems to think that everyone mus…

IMHO, having, and still confronting the darkness:

a) Yes, everything is indeed pointless / "pointless".

b) Think about what "pointless" means. It requires an agent to assign and remove importance. Who is this agent? Is it you, is it society, is it what you have been told since born? What's his goals / values / pov? Why exactly is something "important" or not?

c) Fck "saving the world". Fck "there is a point in this". See it, start, simpler: Do you enjoy eating some specific food? That's the meaning of life. Do you enjoy taking a dump? That's the meaning of life. Do you enjoy chewing gum? That's the meaning of life. Do you enjoy saying some arcane joke? To yourself or some random person you just met? Even if they dislike it or don't understand it? That's the meaning of life. Do you enjoy scratching your @@? That's the meaning of life.

The "purpose in life", is to eg scratch your @@, and for 2 seconds, say "I liked that, and I currently feel good".

It may sound ridiculous, but everything comes from that. If you eg say, "I was thirsty, it's hot, and I enjoyed this cold glass of water", you are on your way to be happy, and also on your way to save humanity. If you want to do that. ..Don't believe me that everything comes from that. But, pls, do enjoy the one second of today, that you felt well doing whatever.

That's the meaning of life. That's the purpose. And when you internalise that, you will find something that is nice for two seconds, and, eventually, you will find the "purpose".

Re: No Longer Wanting to Die

#80

Post by twobits »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #41
Chinmayh wrote: post #7

I am not surprised that a treatment that is so effective to the author has remained unknown to him for so long. I have had feelings of suicide for the last 14 years. I personally hate meeting psychologists, because they can be so unpredictable. Some of the better ones prescribed me medicine, some of the worse ones, told me I had to stop crying and find solutions to my problems, that I was lazy. I was also told becaus…

>having no friends for 14 years can be disruptive WHAT THE UNHOLY FLYING FUCK!? How are you not dead? No actual personal relationships closer than coworker or acquaintance, other than possibly your parents? Near-total personal isolation? FOR 14 YEARS!? That would have broken me in mere months.

"That would have broken me in mere months."

a) You are being mean, with no reason. b) He is stronger than you.

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