Tangential: if someone wants to get into freelancing, how does one go about it? How do you find gigs? I'm into HPC, Hadoop, etc. and have been contemplating freelancing, for a change.
Every freelancer starts out undervaluing their work
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Re: Every freelancer starts out undervaluing their work
#72I don't get why people are so keen on the per-hour model. This puts a lot of pressure on you to be fully productive and count hours like a lawyer. It also makes you think you're losing money when you're not billing, and the customer likewise feels the time/money pressure. I've negotiated fixed-price deals where I'm quite certain I can get the job done in x number of weeks, based on having done something similar befor…
> I don't get why people are so keen on the per-hour model. How many years have you been doing this? It doesn't sound like you've been at this for too long. > I've negotiated fixed-price deals where I'm quite certain I can get the job done in x number of weeks This works fine for a client who wants a very concrete x, y, or z. There's a problem with this sort of client. They only want x, y, or z and after you give it…
Yep.
Getting to a point where risk and cost of change are client problems is ideal, because they are no longer willing to waste your time or nitpick. I charge a daily rate, rather than hourly, but same principle.
Re: Every freelancer starts out undervaluing their work
#73Tangential: if someone wants to get into freelancing, how does one go about it? How do you find gigs? I'm into HPC, Hadoop, etc. and have been contemplating freelancing, for a change.
It depends on what area you want to target. Big data would be a niche field. You would need to know your market. Your market being any niche market where big data is relevant. You then target players who are small enough to need your services, but not large enough to need someone full-time doing what you do.
A lot of people see freelancing as some sort of gateway to doing what you enjoy on your terms. I suppose that's half true. The other half is marketing yourself and building a client base. Both halves are necessary.
If you're willing to take a major haircut off your rate (both in terms of what you bill and the service fees you'll pay), you can get low-end clients on the freelancing sites. That should really be seen as training wheels though and not a permanent solution. Low-end clients pay less, give you more grief, and the projects are less interesting.
Re: Every freelancer starts out undervaluing their work
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Shopping malls have this thing called "anchor tenants" - usually a big-box retailer who pays for massive square footage, which in turn stabilizes the mall's cash flow. Looking back, all freelancers should probably wait to start until they can secure an "anchor client". A company or individual with a solid business who can provide consistent cash flow to the freelancer. One anchor tenant won't pay for a whole shopping…
It's not just freelancers, agencies need them too. Most agencies exist and die on a relatively small handful of anchor clients, if for no other reason than stable cash flow so they can make payroll. By-the-way, these anchor clients usually aren't exciting or fun. In fact, they're usually creatively boring and predictable.
Agencies need to be careful though - when your relationship with your "80% of the billings" client sours, you've got a _big_ problem.
https://insolvencynotices.asic.gov.au/browsesearch-notices/n...
Re: Every freelancer starts out undervaluing their work
#75"When I first started, I charged less than $100/hour." Clearly some of them were on very different paths than me. I taught myself and charging anything over $30/hour would have been deceitful. I couldn't imagine delivering that much value when I was starting.
We didn't know how much value our work provides and was worried about giving our clients a raw deal. I think there's nothing wrong with starting with a low rate until we are confident in our abilities.
Re: Every freelancer starts out undervaluing their work
#76For every one good freelancer there are 100 crappy freelancers. The way you go up is via reputation. No better way than working with clients. When you have no reputation you start at zero when you have reputation you can command your price. If you want to start at a high rate prove yourself on GitHub. The gurus might not have been gurus when they started. 😊
This. I think good freelancers forget how many bad freelancer there are out there poisoning the waters. Before you can charge like a professional you need to be able to prove you are one.
Re: Every freelancer starts out undervaluing their work
#77> pass on the cheap, low-value projects. Hold out for the clients that have budgets and value your time. Every second you spend with clients that don’t have money and don’t value your time is another second you have wasted. I just finished my first 8 months of consulting work and while this is true, it is so difficult to actualize. When we had zero projects, I would take any meetings I could get. A part of me would h…
Shopping malls have this thing called "anchor tenants" - usually a big-box retailer who pays for massive square footage, which in turn stabilizes the mall's cash flow. Looking back, all freelancers should probably wait to start until they can secure an "anchor client". A company or individual with a solid business who can provide consistent cash flow to the freelancer. One anchor tenant won't pay for a whole shopping…
I can attest to this. Thing is, once you have an anchor client, you need to be reaching for the next one. You never know what might happen to their business...I can attest to that, too.
Re: Every freelancer starts out undervaluing their work
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is it better to do free work to build a portfolio of non-professional work, rather than building it by starting with lower-paying engagements?
When you build your client base and you start off by charging a low price, any referral work you get (and it gets to be a large portion of your work as the base grows) will have a harder time with raised rates. The underlying psychology shows us that we undervalue ourselves whereas other people tend not to since they view us as experts. They are generally willing to pay a lot more to have a solved problem than we wou…
> any referral work you get … will have a harder time with raised rates.
This does not seem to mesh with the posted article where they interviewed lots of successful people who started out charging on the low side and were able to aggressively increase over time.
I get what you're saying in this thread, that people tend to not charge enough. Sure, I'm right there with you. What bugs me is this meme that seems to suggest that there's something wrong with doing whatever you can (like charging less) to get your foot in the door. It's intimidating.
Re: Every freelancer starts out undervaluing their work
#79Anyone else being asked for a user and password?
Re: Every freelancer starts out undervaluing their work
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
When you build your client base and you start off by charging a low price, any referral work you get (and it gets to be a large portion of your work as the base grows) will have a harder time with raised rates. The underlying psychology shows us that we undervalue ourselves whereas other people tend not to since they view us as experts. They are generally willing to pay a lot more to have a solved problem than we wou…
> any referral work you get … will have a harder time with raised rates. This does not seem to mesh with the posted article where they interviewed lots of successful people who started out charging on the low side and were able to aggressively increase over time. I get what you're saying in this thread, that people tend to not charge enough. Sure, I'm right there with you. What bugs me is this meme that seems to sugg…
I agree with your sentiment, my point is that people too often believe that low rates will get their foot in the door.
Many times what would happen is someone would get two or three bids and avoid the lowballer because quality is associated with higher pricing. So you're shooting yourself in the foot.
Now this doesn't always happen but I would suggest to stick on the side of trying to charge more than you're comfortable with. You'll be surprised what you can get your foot in the door with.