Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers • Hacker News Board

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#71

Post by cma » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 1:03 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #36

erikb wrote: post #32

Let's not underestimate what Valve has done here. At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. That's a huge thing. Most modders can tell you about it. Then they screwed up, which can happen if you try something the first time. I think it's okay, but I understand why people are pissed. Then the boss himself comes and talks to people on reddit to see what is going on. He gets…

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

If you make a Mickey Mouse sequel using derivative assets, how much of a cut would Disney want? Keeping in mind the assets would be open to competing high-caliber studios (back to the Skyrim example, just allowing for free modding generally precludes competing triple-A's from producing anything, but give them say a "fair" 75% cut of expansions or complete sequels to a competitor's bockbuster game, taking advantage of all their lore, characters, graphical assets, and game engine?).

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#72

Post by ekianjo » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 1:04 PM UTC

jobvandervoort wrote: post #38

michaelt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

As far as I understood that was a value set by Bethesda, not Valve.

Oh so you think Valve has no negotiation power over this kind of things?

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#73

Post by vacri » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 1:04 PM UTC

Vaskivo wrote: post #64

I gathered my thoughts in a comment on the Bethesda blog post: http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyr... TL,DR: Bethesda doesn't deserve the 45% of the sale, specially when they are charging 60$ for the game. IMO, they deserve 0%, for they have created nothing (and were already paid for the game/tools). And mods had value to the game, and increase it's lifetime. Two problems with paid mods: 1 -…

they deserve 0%, for they have created nothing

Not true at all. They created an attractive gaming environment and a mechanism for modding. They should get some percentage, like a royalty, but taking twice as much as the people who write the mods is patently ridiculous.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#74

Post by ekianjo » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 1:05 PM UTC

danr4 wrote: post #53

erikb wrote: post #32

Let's not underestimate what Valve has done here. At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. That's a huge thing. Most modders can tell you about it. Then they screwed up, which can happen if you try something the first time. I think it's okay, but I understand why people are pissed. Then the boss himself comes and talks to people on reddit to see what is going on. He gets…

Actually, I think both launching it and canceling it were ill-conceived moves. The first - obviously didn't align well with the community's (more like the mod users) intentions. The canceling - Upset quality producing modders who think they should be compensated for their time and effort, and now makes them part "part of valve's greediness" in the eyes of users. Seems like they didn't think all the way through in bot…

> Seems like they didn't think all the way through in both moves.

Yes, it looks pretty bad, and it makes Valve look like a bunch of amateurs. And this is coming from someone who generally likes what they do.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#75

Post by smackfu » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 1:05 PM UTC

ux-app wrote: post #65

michaelt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

I haven't been paying extra close attention to the whole fiasco, but there's something that I don't understand. Are people really more in favor of modders getting 100% of $0 rather than 25% of $X? Is there more to this debate that I'm missing?

That seems like an argument that any percentage is fine as long as it's above zero. But certainly people can debate over what a fair percentage is.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#76

Post by TheHypnotist » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 1:06 PM UTC

ux-app wrote: post #65

michaelt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

I haven't been paying extra close attention to the whole fiasco, but there's something that I don't understand. Are people really more in favor of modders getting 100% of $0 rather than 25% of $X? Is there more to this debate that I'm missing?

People are in favor of offering donations and having the modder get the full donation, not being asked to pay for added content. This includes full-fledged mods to a single weapon skin. To make things worse, it seemed that the store became flooded with half-assed content as a means for modders to make a quick buck. Furthermore, some mods required other mods, if the mods that were required started to charge, it became EXTREMELY prohibitive to piggyback.

Most gamers are aware of how Valve became so big and it's through the modding community in HL1 and eventually HL2. Can you imagine how prohibitive it would have been for Counter-Strike to grow if they charged $10 for the mod (obviously when it was till a mod =On top of that, some mods were genuine improvements over the original. For instance, there is a huge Skyrim UI mod that is a vast improvement over the vanilla. Some people were actually afraid that game companies would use this pay for mod system as a way to double dip. "Let's release a half-assed UI, let some modder charge for his better UI and take 45-50% of his sales."

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#77

Post by smackfu » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 1:07 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #73

Vaskivo wrote: post #64

I gathered my thoughts in a comment on the Bethesda blog post: http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyr... TL,DR: Bethesda doesn't deserve the 45% of the sale, specially when they are charging 60$ for the game. IMO, they deserve 0%, for they have created nothing (and were already paid for the game/tools). And mods had value to the game, and increase it's lifetime. Two problems with paid mods: 1 -…

they deserve 0%, for they have created nothing Not true at all. They created an attractive gaming environment and a mechanism for modding. They should get some percentage, like a royalty, but taking twice as much as the people who write the mods is patently ridiculous.

>They created an attractive gaming environment and a mechanism for modding

Isn't that what paying the $60 for the game pays for?

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#78

Post by Vaskivo » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 1:08 PM UTC

pekk wrote: post #44

dijit wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but 25% goes to creators, 45% to bethesda and valves standard 30% fee for transactions? 25% is awfully low, honestly.

What is the correct number they should have used, and how did you arrive at that number?

It is believed that Valve takes 30% from any commercial transaction (google it, although none of the link I found seemed 100% reliable).

IMO, Bethesda should not get any money (see my post)

That leaves 70% for the modder. Seems acceptable to me.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#79

Post by smackfu » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 1:08 PM UTC

UK-AL wrote: post #23

I just don't think gamers understand, if you pay for high quality mods, your gonna get more high quality mods. It's a bit like the crazy excuses people make for pirating games.

We have high quality mods now, from people motivated by love of the game. It's not a given that adding money to the equation would create higher quality mods.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#80

Post by kedean » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 1:09 PM UTC

ux-app wrote: post #65

michaelt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

I haven't been paying extra close attention to the whole fiasco, but there's something that I don't understand. Are people really more in favor of modders getting 100% of $0 rather than 25% of $X? Is there more to this debate that I'm missing?

The core of the issue came down to the effects on the modder community.

1. Modders are hobbyists, not professionals. Many modders came right out and said they would no longer make mods under this system, because the pressure to charge means it becomes a job. They no longer would have the option to just walk away from the mod. 2. Piracy. Modders have explicitly made their mods available for free. Once you have a system where they can be charged for, you have freeloaders putting someone elses mods on steam to make money. Steam provided no protection against this, the only resolution would be filing an individual complaint or invoking DMCA, and Steam was leaving that entirely up to the mod owners to figure out. 3. This was seen as a hostile move towards Nexus, the biggest provider of mods for the games in question. As soon as this was announced, mod makers began removing their products from Nexus out of concern that they would be dishonestly put on the Steam store. As Nexus is an ad-supported service, fewer mods means less income, and it would not be due to a capitalistic business reason.

In the end, most modders don't WANT to be paid for their mods, because it's not a profession. I saw plenty of support for a donation system, however.