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The Hacker Who Drank Ayahuasca

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Re: The Hacker Who Drank Ayahuasca

#71

Post by heurist »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #63
heurist wrote: post #24

Kind of annoying to read honestly, but I agree with his message and experience. I grew up on the internet and don't know how to happily fit into the world as a young adult. Have had deep depression and social anxiety for more than a decade, found out I have ADHD, turned to psychedelics out of curiosity and to see if they helped at all. They helped me realize how unsatisfied I am, and the more I take the more unsatisf…

If you don't mind me asking, determinism precludes free-will, so how does your philosophy reconcile our legal systems, which punish people for their choices? What would you propose in lieu of them (if anything)?

Unwavering compassion and rehabilitation. The way their existence unfolded meant they had no choice but to commit a crime. All the systems around them shaped them into doing that as much as they shaped me into the person typing this message. Design rehabilitation programs accordingly, there should be no trace of 'punishment'.

(Of course it would be nice if crime never happened in the first place but that would require a major reorganization of society, probably comes with the AI overhaul. Also, if laws exist to regulate society they should be designed with that instead of moral values and regularly tested/verified to ensure they are working properly.)

Edit: And there are those who think free will and determinism can coexist [1]. I haven't looked into those ideas yet, still trying to work it out myself.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism

Re: The Hacker Who Drank Ayahuasca

#72

Post by heurist »

jqm wrote: post #44
heurist wrote: post #24

Kind of annoying to read honestly, but I agree with his message and experience. I grew up on the internet and don't know how to happily fit into the world as a young adult. Have had deep depression and social anxiety for more than a decade, found out I have ADHD, turned to psychedelics out of curiosity and to see if they helped at all. They helped me realize how unsatisfied I am, and the more I take the more unsatisf…

I have to say... that was an excellent post. I would have just voted it up and left it at that, but I thought it deserved a little extra. Very good take on the subject.

Thank you! That really means a lot to me, I don't get to discuss these ideas often.

Re: The Hacker Who Drank Ayahuasca

#73

Post by heurist »

ZeroFries wrote: post #42
heurist wrote: post #24

Kind of annoying to read honestly, but I agree with his message and experience. I grew up on the internet and don't know how to happily fit into the world as a young adult. Have had deep depression and social anxiety for more than a decade, found out I have ADHD, turned to psychedelics out of curiosity and to see if they helped at all. They helped me realize how unsatisfied I am, and the more I take the more unsatisf…

Though I don't currently suffer from depression or social anxiety, I can relate to much of what you're saying. But, I also feel that small, controlled amounts of computer time can be incredibly educational and even expressive (through art, writing, and programming). The internet helps spread ideas like never before, and you probably wouldn't even have many of your ideas without it. Like everything in life, there are…

I totally agree, small amounts are great and I wouldn't have any of my ideas if I hadn't spent so much time learning and connecting random facts via the internet. It's hard for me to limit myself, though. Since I'm a software developer I'm always online, and brain-sucking vortexes are two absentminded clicks away at any given time. That's a big problem I'm trying to fix right now.

Re: The Hacker Who Drank Ayahuasca

#74

Post by arjn »

rosser wrote: post #10
jzelinskie wrote: post #2

There are also stories of people dying and the locals dumping their bodies elsewhere so that they don't ruin others experiences or stop people from coming to try the 'Medicine'. IIRC, the primary drug in Ayahuasca is DMT, which can be acquired other ways (that are less likely to make you puke) than drinking their jungle juice.

Yeah, that happened. There's another center in the jungle I know of that changes its name every time they have a guest die. And I've heard stories of "shamans" who add a paralytic to the dose they give attractive young female guests... But you know what? Those are the exceptions. I've taken ayahuasca dozens of times, and am booked for another trip to Peru next month. I've been fortunate only to work with reputable pe…

>> Please don't judge a tradition that's thousands of years old

Somewhat off topic question but I'd like to ask anyway - How exactly do you know its thousands of years old ?

I'm not saying it isn't, but how do you know for sure ?

Re: The Hacker Who Drank Ayahuasca

#76

Post by EdwardDiego »

heurist wrote: post #71
EdwardDiego wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, determinism precludes free-will, so how does your philosophy reconcile our legal systems, which punish people for their choices? What would you propose in lieu of them (if anything)?

Unwavering compassion and rehabilitation. The way their existence unfolded meant they had no choice but to commit a crime. All the systems around them shaped them into doing that as much as they shaped me into the person typing this message. Design rehabilitation programs accordingly, there should be no trace of 'punishment'. (Of course it would be nice if crime never happened in the first place but that would requir…

Fair answer. :) And it makes sense. In a deterministic world, then a rehabilitation system instead of a 'justice' system is the only thing that makes sense.

And cheers for the link, it's given me some thinking material.

Re: The Hacker Who Drank Ayahuasca

#77

Post by anonbanker »

Tharkun wrote: post #61

There are no sure-fire shortcuts to happiness or enlightenment or whatever it is you're seeking. The Internet isn't "It" and Ayahuasca (or other hallucinogenics) aren't "It" either. There is joy and life to be found in pretty much anything. If you're unhappy with your existence, there are other, more convenient ways of going about it than trying dangerous chemicals in dangerous environs.

> There are no sure-fire shortcuts to happiness

Cannabis Sativa/Indica blends have been known to artificially satiate your needs hierarchy, as explained by maslow, pretty well (except sometimes for hunger), allowing one a temporary shortcut to self-actualization.

I've gained massive insights into myself through the use of psilocybin, and I'm not alone. it isn't uncommon to hear someone compare one night with a breakthrough dose of psilocybin to a few years of therapy. These insights, and the resulting lifting of depression, lasted upwards of 3 months the first time it happened to me.

is it better to get to a happy/enlightened state without them? absolutely. but make no mistake, there are shortcuts. like every shortcut, however, make sure you watch your step while you're going through them in order to avoid pitfalls.

Re: The Hacker Who Drank Ayahuasca

#78

Post by api »

rosser wrote: post #43
api wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that kind of shadiness is a consequence of prohibition -- since it's illegal, black and grey markets staffed by crooks and irresponsible flaky types fill the vendor niche. Without prohibition you could go to a professionally run center and take pharmaceutically pure DMT+MAOI instead of shaman piss, and do so with experienced genuinely psychologically educated guides and with modern medical care available in case…

I disagree. It's legal in Peru, where all of the cases I listed occurred. (Technically, it's a gray area where, in the case of indigenous practitioners working on foreign guests, the law literally has nothing to say — neither legal nor illegal, but tolerated because tourism dollars. Indigenous folks treating indigenous folks is black-letter legal, and protected.) It's not prohibition, but rather greed and predation,…

It's prohibition in Wastern countries, which drives a "drug tourism" industry that distorts local markets and encourages that kind of "tourist trap" predation. Prohibition tends to export the corruption it breeds.

I agree about set and setting. The "clinics" I picture are probably not what that word normally conjures up.

Re: The Hacker Who Drank Ayahuasca

#79

Post by rosser »

api wrote: post #78
rosser wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. It's legal in Peru, where all of the cases I listed occurred. (Technically, it's a gray area where, in the case of indigenous practitioners working on foreign guests, the law literally has nothing to say — neither legal nor illegal, but tolerated because tourism dollars. Indigenous folks treating indigenous folks is black-letter legal, and protected.) It's not prohibition, but rather greed and predation,…

It's prohibition in Wastern countries, which drives a "drug tourism" industry that distorts local markets and encourages that kind of "tourist trap" predation. Prohibition tends to export the corruption it breeds. I agree about set and setting. The "clinics" I picture are probably not what that word normally conjures up.

I take your point, and don't disagree, but there's an element of the gestalt of the experience that calls for its being done in its ethnic and ecological context. For many of the people I know through my time down there, the act of taking the journey to the jungle to do this work is an integral part of the process. That is to say, it's not just "jurisdiction shopping" (but by the same token, that doesn't mean there's none of that, either).

Re: The Hacker Who Drank Ayahuasca

#80

Post by api »

rosser wrote: post #79
api wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's prohibition in Wastern countries, which drives a "drug tourism" industry that distorts local markets and encourages that kind of "tourist trap" predation. Prohibition tends to export the corruption it breeds. I agree about set and setting. The "clinics" I picture are probably not what that word normally conjures up.

I take your point, and don't disagree, but there's an element of the gestalt of the experience that calls for its being done in its ethnic and ecological context. For many of the people I know through my time down there, the act of taking the journey to the jungle to do this work is an integral part of the process. That is to say, it's not just "jurisdiction shopping" (but by the same token, that doesn't mean there's…

I don't disagree. It would be our shamanic experience, not theirs. It would have a different set, setting, gestalt, mythology, and symbolism around it.

I'd be fascinated to know then if certain underlying themes and insights would remain similar or not. So far the western experience with psychedelics does show some commonality with that of indigenous peoples-- it's common for people to report a kind of cosmic oneness experience, insights about their character, etc. But there are also unique cultural twists. Ours have a flavor reminiscent of Greek and Roman Dionysian and Bacchanalian ceremonies, and then there is stuff like:

http://www.matrixmasters.net/salon/2006/06/podcast-042-–-“us...

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