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Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

sunday-guardian.com

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Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#71

Post by dingaling »

froo wrote: post #30
Tinyyy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it gives away free access of 38 sites. But by doing so, they also encourage more people to forgo purchasing complete internet plans and hence accessing all of the other millions of websites out there. This indirectly drives traffic to this 38 sites that they’ve picked through a very skewed and opaque process, and undermines the concept of net neutrality.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. This is simply an example of this in effect. If people want full internet access.. pay for it. There is no story here.

But people won't know there is "full" Internet access, or will be unable to justify the cost versus making do with the "free 38".

At present in the UK my monthly broadband connection costs just over one day of minimum-wage salary. Or nearly a week of groceries. I can see how easily that could be seen as a worthwhile saving for people on low incomes.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#72

Post by ishadua »

i think the alarm bells are a little unfounded. The internet.org initiative is to connect people who are not in the internet grid. Take a moment and think about who those people are. Do they use Saas, would they care to read a critically analyzed piece written by a journalist? The ones taking Saas subscriptions, writing/reading blogs are already connected and in the internet ambit. I cant clearly see the relation between Reliance Jio and India's growth. And moreover, the idea of giving free internet will not be sustaiable. Hope it makes sense.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#73

Post by Sami_Lehtinen »

I think this is good. Actually if I don't remember wrong this kind of 0 plan is already available if Finland for Facebook on at least one operator. As far as I can see there are no downsides. Access to listed sites can save lives.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#74

Post by RubyPinch »

DanBC wrote: post #54
eklavya wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know(I think) about "Net Neutrality". There is a difference between discriminating between packets and charging more for particular traffic and providing access to some sites for free. They are not charging more for a particular kind of traffic and so I assume they are Net Neutral. Did I miss something?

They are charging more for particular types of traffic! Anything other than a select few sites is being charged.

The new Net Neutral laws had an intentional loophole. An ISP can provide cheaper access to sites out of only good will. aka not in a business partnership or affiliation.

I do not know if facebook is paying for this service though.

I find it funny that people only seem to start caring when there is a "bad" name on it (I didn't hear much else than praise for Wikipedia Zero, for example).

And the primary complaint seems to be that they might do something bad maybe, but they haven't yet (specifically, they might start charging more (why? because they are bad of course) for standard commections)

for >90% of things, the "short" and long tail of businesses are going to both cost money to access their sites, the economy isn't going to erupt in flames

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#75

Post by danielam »

x0x0 wrote: post #46
thawkins wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a startup trying to compete with any of those 38 sites, thrn you start with a massive disadvantage. Zuckerberg is essentialy creating a massive walled garden where the walls are held in place by economic pressure.

but are people better off or worse? Should fb be forced to subsidize access to competitors? Does India have an effective internet access monopoly (occasionally a duopoly) ala the us, which is why I supported fcc regulations?

This. I favor net neutrality, but I think much of the "moral outrage" comes from a combination of paternalism, self-serving attitudes and petty, pampered middle class arrogance and not a discerning realism. Vacuous and self-righteous sloganeering do not impress me. Luxuries are not a given.

The question that should be asked (which you bring up) from the position of those who receive the service: does it help or hurt them in the here-and-now? Are they better or worse off, on the whole, than they would have been without the service? I also presume this service is being offered in a relatively free market.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#76

Post by kamaal »

_jgdh wrote: post #21
random_coder wrote: post #15

I'm Indian and I'm deeply frustrated and disappointed with this. My fear is that other mobile networks like Airtel will pick up dumb ass half-baked ideas like this and start charging for data from other non approved sources and for high cost paid wireless Internet to become the norm. I know Reliance is way too greedy, but this really is a new low. While wireless data costs in other countries are coming down, here we…

As a fellow Indian, I'd find that frustrating too. Think of the alternative - suppose the government or judiciary finds this practice illegal and outlaws it. Imagine how unlikely this is and even if it does happen, how much bad press would be generated about "job-killing License Raj" etc.

>>how much bad press would be generated about "job-killing License Raj" etc.

I'm amazed many Indians still fall for this. The current day telecommunications companies came into being like knights in shining armor, to fight the decades of rot and stagnation in the ecosystem due to BSNL in the early 2000's.

Now their whole business is being disrupted in the same way, they disrupted BSNL's business. Price innovation, innovation in customer service and making services accessible to every one at affordable prices. Now when they are being given a dose of their own medicine, they want the government to come in and have regulations to save them.

Funny how capitalism works when you are at the receiving end.

If these people aren't stopped now they will let things stagnate and rot for the next half century. We all know how well that worked out.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#77

Post by kamaal »

tedunangst wrote: post #27
Harimwakairi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask Netscape how they feel about Microsoft giving Internet Explorer away.

Ask Microsoft how they feel about Linus giving Linux away.

Giving away IE for free hasn't worked that well for Microsoft anyway. Open Source communities giving away *BSD's and Linux for free has been disastrous for Microsoft, on the longer run.

Android and iOS have eaten Microsoft's lunch big time.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#78

Post by iwwr »

Doesn't the culture of free web services actually create some of the perverse incentives at play in Google, Facebook and others today? The paying customers become advertisers and data miners and users are relegated to giving up their information (and potentially: future freedom). If people paid for these services, internet companies would see them as customers to serve rather than personal data to sell and exploit.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#79

Post by junktest »

random_coder wrote: post #15

I'm Indian and I'm deeply frustrated and disappointed with this. My fear is that other mobile networks like Airtel will pick up dumb ass half-baked ideas like this and start charging for data from other non approved sources and for high cost paid wireless Internet to become the norm. I know Reliance is way too greedy, but this really is a new low. While wireless data costs in other countries are coming down, here we…

Probably start a petition/campaign and collaborate with Centre for Internet and Society in India http://cis-india.org/internet-governance for raising the issue

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#80

Post by pmontra »

avemuri wrote: post #45
pmontra wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netscape wa giving its browser away for free too. I remember I was downloading it from netscape.com without paying. What made Microsoft subject to an antitrust investigation was bundling IE with Windows. MS lost the case but too late for Netscape. To answer another reply to your post, that's also the difference with Linus distributing Linux for free. No bundling. Furthermore there is the open source vs closed source…

They made it free in response to Microsoft and refocused on monetizing servers.

I really never paid for it. According to http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape_Navigator it was free for non commercial users. There were a few changes along the months but eventually "the full version of the browser continued to be made available for free online".
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