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Ember's Glimmer Engine

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Re: Ember's Glimmer Engine

#71

Post by teh »

ralmidani wrote: post #47
vjeux wrote: post #24

React 0.14 is going to have similar optimizations. Check those three posts if you are interested in the details :) Reuse Constant Value Types like ReactElement: https://github.com/facebook/react/issues/3226 Tagging ReactElements: https://github.com/facebook/react/issues/3227 Inline ReactElements: https://github.com/facebook/react/issues/3228

React's unfair and one-sided patent grant aside (personally, I will never build a real app with React unless that situation changes), it is not a complete MVC framework, and to my knowledge there is nothing that fills in the gaps to make something close to Ember feature-wise. So while React may end up faster, Ember will hopefully be quick enough that its programming model wins out. Edit: grammar.

What makes the patent grant unfair? I think saying "you can use our pretty powerful technology until you sue us" is a great way to defang the patent system.

[1] https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/master/PATENTS

Re: Ember's Glimmer Engine

#72

Post by ZaneD »

amccloud wrote: post #10
makmanalp wrote: post #2

Here is a pretty neat demo with tons of live updates from a firebase cluster: https://dbmonster.firebaseapp.com/

Demo of embers original performance with dbmon along with angular and react https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5e7kWSHWTg

Here is the original Ember version: http://jsbin.com/pafoledixe/2/

Be careful, it is very slow and may crash your browser.

Re: Ember's Glimmer Engine

#73

Post by ralmidani »

teh wrote: post #71
ralmidani wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

React's unfair and one-sided patent grant aside (personally, I will never build a real app with React unless that situation changes), it is not a complete MVC framework, and to my knowledge there is nothing that fills in the gaps to make something close to Ember feature-wise. So while React may end up faster, Ember will hopefully be quick enough that its programming model wins out. Edit: grammar.

What makes the patent grant unfair? I think saying "you can use our pretty powerful technology until you sue us" is a great way to defang the patent system. [1] https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/master/PATENTS

It's unfair and one-sided because you cannot sue Facebook for infringing an unrelated patent, but if Facebook sues you for an unrelated patent, you will lose your rights if you try to assert (defensively) that their patent is invalid. In other words, you can never sue or even defend yourself against a Facebook lawsuit.

For a more balanced approach to patents, see the GPL, Mozilla Public License, or Apache 2.0 License.

Re: Ember's Glimmer Engine

#74

Post by bsimpson »

It's pretty cool that a year ago, React was far and away the best choice for new JS development for reasons that seemed to be architectural (no dependence on the DOM/server-renderable, isomorphic, intentionally minimal DOM modification), and in the intervening time, the Ember guys have taken the good ideas from React and brought them to Ember. Congratulations! It's great to see the best ideas lifting all boats.

Re: Ember's Glimmer Engine

#75

Post by unknownian »

teh wrote: post #71
ralmidani wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

React's unfair and one-sided patent grant aside (personally, I will never build a real app with React unless that situation changes), it is not a complete MVC framework, and to my knowledge there is nothing that fills in the gaps to make something close to Ember feature-wise. So while React may end up faster, Ember will hopefully be quick enough that its programming model wins out. Edit: grammar.

What makes the patent grant unfair? I think saying "you can use our pretty powerful technology until you sue us" is a great way to defang the patent system. [1] https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/master/PATENTS

That's not just what it says. If it just said that, that would be fine.

It says making "any claim" against a Facebook patent will terminate your right to use the software. Facebook gets to protect its own software patents: "that any right in any patent claim of Facebook is invalid or unenforceable."

The other lines are okay, it seems.

I am not an IP law expert or lawyer though, but the writing seems pretty simple.

Re: Ember's Glimmer Engine

#76

Post by poolpool »

hayksaakian wrote: post #70
rxcfc wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have added the caveat that there will always be a handful of cases where you do need absolute top performance. However, I do think that for the vast majority of apps we'll end up at a point where performance isn't the deciding factor. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep improving performance, just that being the fastest doesn't matter so much if all the options are very fast.

it seems like if you're concerned with performance, react vs ember is not the conversation you're having. your concern would be whether to use a framework at all

Or whether you should even be using a web app.

Re: Ember's Glimmer Engine

#77

Post by EdwardMSmith »

unknownian wrote: post #75
teh wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes the patent grant unfair? I think saying "you can use our pretty powerful technology until you sue us" is a great way to defang the patent system. [1] https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/master/PATENTS

That's not just what it says. If it just said that, that would be fine. It says making "any claim" against a Facebook patent will terminate your right to use the software. Facebook gets to protect its own software patents: "that any right in any patent claim of Facebook is invalid or unenforceable." The other lines are okay, it seems. I am not an IP law expert or lawyer though, but the writing seems pretty simple.

I'm not a lawyer either, but isn't the word "claim" a term of art in law. Doesn't it have a specific meaning distinct from the common usage?

Re: Ember's Glimmer Engine

#78

Post by teh »

ralmidani wrote: post #73
teh wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes the patent grant unfair? I think saying "you can use our pretty powerful technology until you sue us" is a great way to defang the patent system. [1] https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/master/PATENTS

It's unfair and one-sided because you cannot sue Facebook for infringing an unrelated patent, but if Facebook sues you for an unrelated patent, you will lose your rights if you try to assert (defensively) that their patent is invalid. In other words, you can never sue or even defend yourself against a Facebook lawsuit. For a more balanced approach to patents, see the GPL, Mozilla Public License, or Apache 2.0 License…

IANAL so I didn't get that. Thanks for explaining!

Re: Ember's Glimmer Engine

#80

Post by rxcfc »

hayksaakian wrote: post #70
rxcfc wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have added the caveat that there will always be a handful of cases where you do need absolute top performance. However, I do think that for the vast majority of apps we'll end up at a point where performance isn't the deciding factor. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep improving performance, just that being the fastest doesn't matter so much if all the options are very fast.

it seems like if you're concerned with performance, react vs ember is not the conversation you're having. your concern would be whether to use a framework at all

Performance is a relative term. One could just as well argue that if you're really concerned with performance you should just write machine code.
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