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Why animals eat psychoactive plants

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Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#71

Post by shard972 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #26
malka wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is socially acceptable to be addicted to coffee. Plus you can buy coffee almost anywhere, and it is really inexpensive. In a situation where coffee would be banned, we would in all likeliness see a rise in coffee smuggling, a drop in quality of coffee, and coffee addicts would face problem due to the illegality of the stuff : imagine that one day, your dealer is all out of coffee. That would cause a withdr…

> a situation where coffee would be banned, we would in all likeliness see a rise in coffee smuggling, a drop in quality of coffee, and coffee addicts would face problem due to the illegality of the stuff More likely if caffeine were banned. If coffee were banned, those with a dependence (which is most likely on caffeine, not coffee) would substitute other sources. Like tea. Or soda. (People might smuggle coffee if i…

> (People might smuggle coffee if it were banned, the way they smuggle Cuban cigars into the US, but as a prohibited luxury rather than an item of dependence that there was no legal means to fulfill.)

You do realize that caffeine is more addictive than cannibas right? If there is an illegal drug trade for that pot then I can't imagine people would just give up on coffee when it's harder to kick.

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#72

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

rprospero wrote: post #44
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You seldom hear about people who lie to their loved ones about their hidden coffee stash, or steal from their child's piggybank to sustain their caffeine fix. I also seldom hear of people who lie to their loved ones about their hidden drug/alcohol stash, or steal from their child's piggybank to sustain their drug/alcohol fix. Really, I do often hear the same sad generic story which you refer to, but there are never…

You're right that the generic story isn't really attached to statistical data that would make it meaningful. However, if you want specifics on the story, it's my mother in law. She could either pay the rent or buy alcohol. She purchased alcohol and was evicted form her home. Living homeless in the park, she and her children didn't eat for two days. When she received money, she decided to continue forgoing food to spe…

> The only catch was that she'd have to remain sober. She preferred the alcohol.

This is a cruel joke that gets played on drunks. She didn't prefer the alcohol, she was/is addicted; and our society deals with addiction in probably the worst possible way. They may as well have asked her to jump over the moon. Rational people don't do that to themselves or their families. I didn't say that these things never happen. I said they are more rare than some would have you believe. I have my own horrible story in that vein (my father), but what I don't do is use it to pander to peoples' emotions in an effort to further perpetuate, or perhaps even expand the disaster that is the drug war. Addiction is an ugly unfortunate thing that exists, and as sad and regrettable as your wife's tale, and my father's tale, and the tales of others are; using these tales to support the continuance of, or the heaping of even more hardship (criminal sanctions) upon the susceptible/unfortunate/whatever is and always was the wrong thing to do.

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#73

Post by [deleted] »

rprospero wrote: post #44
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You seldom hear about people who lie to their loved ones about their hidden coffee stash, or steal from their child's piggybank to sustain their caffeine fix. I also seldom hear of people who lie to their loved ones about their hidden drug/alcohol stash, or steal from their child's piggybank to sustain their drug/alcohol fix. Really, I do often hear the same sad generic story which you refer to, but there are never…

You're right that the generic story isn't really attached to statistical data that would make it meaningful. However, if you want specifics on the story, it's my mother in law. She could either pay the rent or buy alcohol. She purchased alcohol and was evicted form her home. Living homeless in the park, she and her children didn't eat for two days. When she received money, she decided to continue forgoing food to spe…

[deleted]

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#74

Post by hamiltonkibbe »

mgkimsal wrote: post #17
jamesbowman wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

David E.H. Jones pointed out that the socially sanctioned drugs have something in common: they all taste bad. Or at least, they have a taste that is unappealing to children, and then must be acquired by special effort. Coffee, tea, tobacco, alcohol: all taste pretty awful to a ten-year-old.

Except sugar.

Not sure why this was downvoted, sugar was likely the first example of the commodification of drugs, and the beginning of a global drug trade....

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#75

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

Hytosys wrote: post #52
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You seldom hear about people who lie to their loved ones about their hidden coffee stash, or steal from their child's piggybank to sustain their caffeine fix. I also seldom hear of people who lie to their loved ones about their hidden drug/alcohol stash, or steal from their child's piggybank to sustain their drug/alcohol fix. Really, I do often hear the same sad generic story which you refer to, but there are never…

I'm glad you've never had anyone in your life with a drug addiction. It is clearly something from which you have been withdrawn. Try your best to empathize with the people who match the clinical description of substance addiction as defined by the DSM. This isn't something about which people are simply exaggerating.

>I'm glad you've never had anyone in your life with a drug addiction. It is clearly something from which you have been withdrawn.

Thanks, but that's not what I said, you're mistaken on that account.

>This isn't something about which people are simply exaggerating.

The stories don't need exaggeration.

My response, and what I find offensive about these stories' use in pro-drug war propaganda, is that they are being used to pander to peoples' emotions in an effort to support the current dreadful state of affairs.

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#76

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

foobarian wrote: post #48
vinceguidry wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A once-daily dose of cocaine or heroin is not likely to lead to serious dependence or health effects. So long as the dose and frequency remain constant, one should be able to ride that horse forever. Americans have forgotten just how ubiquitous drugs that are now illegal used to be, and how often they were used. Amphetamines used to be commonly prescribed by doctors, for just about anything. Hitler used to take cryst…

> Hitler used to take crystal meth daily, he was reported to have taken nine shots during his last days in the bunker Not exactly a glowing endorsement of taking the drug.

JFK then? He made frequent use of the stuff.

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#77

Post by kristofferR »

iooi wrote: post #12
TallGuyShort wrote: post #6

>> Only 10 percent of drug users have a problem with their substance My politics generally agree with the author's main point, but this statistic seems disingenuous. Surely the percentage varies significantly depending on the drug. I know plenty of people who smoke marijuana and don't have a problem with it. Yet the only people I've known who had problems with methamphetamine or heroine have all ended up hitting rock…

> Yet the only people I've known who had problems with methamphetamine or heroine have all ended up hitting rock-bottom or dying. Have you known anyone who hasn't had a problem with either of those drugs but still used them at some point in their life? I would recommend reading TFA, the statistic isn't something the author made up, its from a leaked copy of a United Nations Office on Drug Control report. For those in…

Found it:

"Globally, it is estimated that in 2012, between 162 million and 324 million people, corresponding to between 3.5 per cent and 7.0 per cent of the world population aged 15-64, had used an illicit drug — mainly a substance belonging to the cannabis, opioid, cocaine or amphetamine-type stimulants group — at least once in the previous year.

The extent of problem drug use - by regular drug users and those with drug use disorders or dependence remains stable at between 16 million and 39 million people."

http://www.unodc.org/documents/wdr2014/World_Drug_Report_201...

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#78

Post by simplexion »

panzagl wrote: post #63
simplexion wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? Does it change the value of this recently published article because of previous bad behaviour? Keep your logical fallacies to yourself.

Really? I mean really? Of course it changes the value of the article- articles written by unreliable sources are less valuable than those written by reliable ones. Or does it not matter as long as you like the message? If the CIA/NSA comes out and says "Oh it's ok y'all should totally get stoned" does that mean you trust them all of a sudden? It's no wonder every decent novel about a dystopean society has some type o…

Yes, really. Your argument is why people who have been to jail are unable to gain employment. People make mistakes.

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#79

Post by TylerE »

derefr wrote: post #67
atom_enger wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you see it this way, it's hard to stand in line at Starbucks and think "I'm not an addict." Everyone and their mother is addicted to something, it's just a matter of whether or not the authorities approve of your choice of substance. Truth is we're humans and humans seek to alter their consciousness whether it be through meditation, prayer, exercise, spinning in circles or a through a shortcut -- a substance. Un…

More and more, I don't see addicts; I see people self-medicating for undiagnosed neurochemical imbalances. Alcoholics are frequently people who don't realize they have anxiety disorders, and think they need alcohol to be calm. People who drink cup after cup of coffee/soda because it helps them to "focus" and "be productive" might do well with being tested for ADD. People with undiagnosed clinical depression get hooke…

Why say undiagnosed? Maybe we ha've been and just prefer something less. Caffiene is easier on the body and mind than amphetamines.

Re: Why animals eat psychoactive plants

#80

Post by TylerE »

derefr wrote: post #67
atom_enger wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you see it this way, it's hard to stand in line at Starbucks and think "I'm not an addict." Everyone and their mother is addicted to something, it's just a matter of whether or not the authorities approve of your choice of substance. Truth is we're humans and humans seek to alter their consciousness whether it be through meditation, prayer, exercise, spinning in circles or a through a shortcut -- a substance. Un…

More and more, I don't see addicts; I see people self-medicating for undiagnosed neurochemical imbalances. Alcoholics are frequently people who don't realize they have anxiety disorders, and think they need alcohol to be calm. People who drink cup after cup of coffee/soda because it helps them to "focus" and "be productive" might do well with being tested for ADD. People with undiagnosed clinical depression get hooke…

Why say undiagnosed? Maybe we ha've been and just prefer something less. Caffiene is easier on the body and mind than amphetamines.
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