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The Fine Art of Bullshit, Killed by Google

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Re: The Fine Art of Bullshit, Killed by Google

#71

I have a rule I always follow, and have convinced many friends of too -- no Googling/Wikipedia-ing in social settings. If nobody knows something (trivia-like), it's almost always a lot more fun to continue not knowing. Sure, look it up when you get home. But a little group self-discipline goes far in keeping the fine art of bullshitting alive. (And it's not just the answer that kills the conversation, but also the fa…

Weirdly I wrote a blog post on this last year (http://www.toenex.net/2014/04/08/information-super-highway/). I only say weird as I don't really write blog posts, preferring to keep my demons to myself.

Re: The Fine Art of Bullshit, Killed by Google

#72
post #13

Not only bullshit. I remember in one of the Beatles interviews how early on they found out that some guy in town knew the B7 guitar chord. They would get on a bus to meet this guy to learn the chord. This journey would not exist today :(

Smells fishy to me. I could figure out B7 in like, a minute, and I'm not a good guitarist at all.

Re: The Fine Art of Bullshit, Killed by Google

#73
post #45

I'm struggling to identify what it is about this nostalgia that infuriates me so deeply. Perhaps it's just fascinating to me that so many people find it fun to be in stupid situations. I find it barbaric and twisted. More productively, I wonder how people would respond to this after having grown up with the boundary of their 30s knowledge horizon roughly equivalent to that of humanity's experts 10yr prior. Anyone bor…

I honestly believe we live our lives for the moments that aren't spent learning. Facts are facts, and that's just about it. This behavior is "fun" because their bullshitting about Steven Tyler led to them meeting up with some girls, going to some bars, and having a good night out. It's weird how all these advancements in technology that were supposed to free up our time have just taken up more of our time. It's sad,…

It baffles me how you can call this convoluted process "learning". It's not. It's rightfully called the art of trivia bullshitting and has nothing to do with learning.

It's a purely social process that seems foreign and awkward to a visible majority of the HN crowd. I happen to agree with that crowd, I don't see the fun in it. I don't see the point in it. I wasn't raised to respond positively to this specific situation.

Instead - and again I believe a majority of the people on HN are in the same boat - I get socially interested in people with whom I can have exchanges that have the potential to affect the way I work, I behave or I see the world.

I have a fairly arrogant (but not necessarily incorrect) theory about this. I suspect that when you work/live in an environment which constantly stimulates you intellectually, you have an easier time getting to the "rewarding" part of more intellectual exchanges (eg. the facts of a conversation) than someone who works 9-17 at Walmart, and whose curiosity in the world is not being constantly nurtured, might. Thus we see a large majority of people who do not get any satisfaction from talking about more in-depth subjects than, say, Steven Tyler and Mary Tyler Moore.

And that lack of satisfaction is present on both sides. Once you have tasted what it's like to fire pure knowledge and experience at each other in a conversation and having all parties enjoy it, it's very hard to find any pleasure in exchanging senseless, bullshit factoids that will only serve to be repeated to someone else in the same social situation later on.

Re: The Fine Art of Bullshit, Killed by Google

#74
Bullshit hasn't gone anywhere, sadly. Politicians, the media, companies and people in general spew out more bullshit than ever before, despite the fact that we have easier access to facts than ever before.

No one care to check: "it's in the news, so it must be true". Or the alternative, we assume it's all bullshit, even when it's not.

It often seems that we don't care if somethings is bullshit. If it appeals to us we don't want to run the risk of being proven wrong. If we don't like the bullshit that's coming our way there's no point in proving it wrong, because "everyone knows that it's bullshit".

Re: The Fine Art of Bullshit, Killed by Google

#76
post #63

If he wants to engage people he should switch to trolling.

Trolls are what folks in my day used to call assholes. Trolling isn't just joking with your buddies about something innocuous. It has become an excuse for just being a jerk to people and hoping they don't pop you in the nose. On the other hand there are genuine good pranksters whose craft is finely honed and deserving of appreciation.

Of course that in this context it's the latter just as anigbrowl's comment proves.

Re: The Fine Art of Bullshit, Killed by Google

#77
The world, pre-Google, abounded in serendipitous quests to find one piece of information offline.

The world, post-Google, abounds in serendipitous quests to find many pieces of information online, such as starting at a given book on Amazon and moving down the chain of Amazon's "Customers Also Bought", or embarking on a semi-infinite dive through Wikipedia.

Any of these can turn into a game given the right mindset. Who can connect Klein bottles to the Gettysburg address in the fewest links?

Of course, that's not to disparage the fun of lacking access to proper information. Just look at these bodybuilders arguing over the number of days in a week: http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/233107/two-body-builders-arg...

Re: The Fine Art of Bullshit, Killed by Google

#78
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there are still things to be uncertain about that aren't useless trivia, factoids, or urban legends. Hopefully the new BS free era will trickle down to the lower classes, gradually eroding their ignorance and prejudices, at least about one-liner facts.

Hopefully this new era will also gradually mitigate lazy generalizations and atavistic class distinctions.

Point taken, but please read for the kernel of truth that remains after all the nits have been picked off.

Re: The Fine Art of Bullshit, Killed by Google

#79

I have a rule I always follow, and have convinced many friends of too -- no Googling/Wikipedia-ing in social settings. If nobody knows something (trivia-like), it's almost always a lot more fun to continue not knowing. Sure, look it up when you get home. But a little group self-discipline goes far in keeping the fine art of bullshitting alive. (And it's not just the answer that kills the conversation, but also the fa…

I'm rather shocked at the fairly visceral reactions a lot of people are having here. This is pretty classic conversational shenanigans. We had a blast with this in college; either you play along or counter with something equally preposterous or unprovable. Looking up the answer is cheating. It's like a game of verbal Calvin Ball or Mornington Crescent. As noted elsewhere in this thread (edit: at least one level up it…

I realize you may have omitted some nuance, but to me, "debating" whether you have to consider the entirety of a mass when modeling gravity sounds incredibly boring. If you use 9.8 m/s*s you are papering over all the nuance, and otherwise 2 masses and a distance is pretty obviously fundamental.

Was the real conversation better than that?

Re: The Fine Art of Bullshit, Killed by Google

#80
post #66
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The conversation is so much more interesting when there are more connections, more tangents to explore than one mind can contain. Facts build on facts, and you can chase down endless rabbit holes when you're not limited to what one wrinkly lump of cholesterol can scrape out of its interconnected canyons.

Except exploring those connections is something people do by quietly clicking links on their screen and reading out the facts presented to them. That is not conversation. Conversation is sharing personal interpretations of the world. It should be ok to be wrong. You'll always gain far more insight in to people around you, build closer bonds with them, and have more fun if you're willing to let a few trivial mistakes…

From personal experience, many people will treat conversation as a business event where sharing of facts is paramount. Certainly around my parents and their family, the tendency to railroad towards references, prepared stories and newspaper citations is overwhelming. Original criticism and self-reflection is too confrontational or vulnerable for them. Pauses and silences are considered "awkward" and to be avoided. Decorum is of high importance. This creates a stifling, repetitive conversational flow as they get to ruminate out loud on the same thoughts over and over, without really exploring anything.

Gradually, I've recognized the artifice that goes into these constraints and their denial of the human condition - especially since I can observe them become increasingly unprepared to perform this task as they get older and so lean on me more and more to drive the topics, while getting agitated and defensive if I deviate from the chosen railroad.

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