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By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

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Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#71

Post by anapparition »

john_b wrote: post #48
xianshou wrote: post #10

I play Go and chess, and I think of it this way: the best players may have won more than others, but they have also lost more than others, because they have simply played more games. Frequent loss or rejection is a necessary step to goodness. This also applies to business, the opposite sex, and most anything else that might matter to you. Or, to paraphrase many an artist and CEO: if I have not failed today, it means…

To quote Michael Jordan: "I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." Willingness to fail is a precondition for learning and growth.

A quote of a similar nature: "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#72

Post by wtbob »

mod wrote: post #47
balabaster wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the whole concept of being out of someone's league has the underlying implication that the person you're considering is better than you somehow. Just because they're not your cup of tea, or vice versa doesn't make them out of your league, they just make that person different than you. People are people, we all eat, drink, shit and do what we have to do to survive. Even the most "successful" CEO, the Queen of…

You're digging at that "everyone is unique" vibe, or "everybody wins." I don't really think it's relevant. I think when people say that, it's typically along the lines of "that person is very [attractive|smart|rich|combo] and could have any of millions of partners at will. I'm unremarkable in all [perceivable|probably-important-to-them] ways, so it's an extreme longshot to pursue them." Doesn't mean they're not wrong…

> But they might want to optimize for "people in their league," especially if the fear of rejection is in them like the guy in OP.

I think folks should try not to worry about that too much: http://imgur.com/gallery/eo5oq

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#73

Post by blackbagboys »

rada wrote: post #50
thirdtruck wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit (I admit not entirely) like saying that "Maybe all those free-throws you practiced between games didn't score us any actual points." 100% of the women he didn't ask did not give him his number. The exercise served the purpose of pushing him past the fear that would have otherwise paralyzed him during a real request.

Except women are people, not inanimate objects to bounce balls off of. Those women did not choose to participate in SeanDav's practice, and it was not cost-free to them to be used and discarded that way. More to brazzy's point, SeanDav doesn't get to decide how he comes across to people. Pretty young women get hit on constantly and it is really exhausting and demoralizing to be rudely interrupted every five minutes w…

Indeed, better that SeanDev have suffered a lifetime of loneliness and social anxiety than an attractive woman suffer through even a single socially awkward moment. God knows their lives are hard enough already.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#74

Post by benten10 »

I have a problem that's opposite of his: a fear of acceptance. Making a game out of the rejection game is all fun, except when you don't get rejections. Imagine the guy you ask for a ride across the town actually insists you take the ride with him. The girl (re: an earlier comment)who you ask for a number gives you her number, but also asks for yours, and actually calls you to make sure it's right.

So here's my conundrum: one one hand, there's a fear of going beyond my comfort zone. On the other there's what appears to be (likely quite unjustified) confidence that I will not get rejected as I hope. And thus, stasis.

Was it Twain (or Groucho Marx?) who said "I don't want to become part of any club that will happily take me as their member"? That's quite a problem for me, and it's not as devastating as general fear of approaching people, but still quite annoying.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#75

Post by toothbrush »

chillingeffect wrote: post #55
rada wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except women are people, not inanimate objects to bounce balls off of. Those women did not choose to participate in SeanDav's practice, and it was not cost-free to them to be used and discarded that way. More to brazzy's point, SeanDav doesn't get to decide how he comes across to people. Pretty young women get hit on constantly and it is really exhausting and demoralizing to be rudely interrupted every five minutes w…

Ironically, it seems you're trying to sympathize with women by saying they're not inanimate objects to bounce balls off of, but you're still denying them autonomy. When women want attention, they dress attractively. When they don't want attention, they dress casually. It's just like birds. Ever wonder why they call it the birds and the bees? If you're a guy and you hit on women in sweatpants, you'll most likely fail,…

> Logically, this implies that he was asking women who were seeking attraction by dressing attractively and presenting themselves as available and seeking mates, just like birds who sing to signal their availability.

Hm, the male gaze is heavy with this one. Has it ever occurred to you that people (of whatever gender) might like to put on clothes to please themselves? Because it makes them feel nice? Your assumption that the only possible reason to do that could be to "show availability" and that it was done with other people, and their regard, in mind, is awfully egocentric of you.

Incidentally, i agree with your thesis that attractiveness isn't a have/have not thing, nor is it about normative tastes with regards to appearance. This is, however, orthogonal to whether or not women exist simply to mate with, and that they signal this by clothing choices (which is what you're implying, by denying that anyone would dress a certain way for other reasons).

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#76

Post by [deleted] »

chillingeffect wrote: post #55
rada wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except women are people, not inanimate objects to bounce balls off of. Those women did not choose to participate in SeanDav's practice, and it was not cost-free to them to be used and discarded that way. More to brazzy's point, SeanDav doesn't get to decide how he comes across to people. Pretty young women get hit on constantly and it is really exhausting and demoralizing to be rudely interrupted every five minutes w…

Ironically, it seems you're trying to sympathize with women by saying they're not inanimate objects to bounce balls off of, but you're still denying them autonomy. When women want attention, they dress attractively. When they don't want attention, they dress casually. It's just like birds. Ever wonder why they call it the birds and the bees? If you're a guy and you hit on women in sweatpants, you'll most likely fail,…

[deleted]

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#77

Post by pharrington »

ck425 wrote: post #67
pharrington wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What he's really doing is using interaction with women as practice to be better at interaction with women. " Specifically, by learning to not care about the women in question or the interactions. This is why comparing talking to people with shooting freethrows is goddamn weird. People are not basketball rims. The basketball rim lacks subjective experience.

I'd argue what he did was learn not to care about his own natural reaction to the situation, which is different. He also set ground rules to avoid making the women uncomfortable.

So what exactly is SeanDav caring about again? In the case where a girl did give him a phone number, assuming that number is real, what is the expectation of the girl giving him a means for further contact? Did he go into this exchange making sure she knew he had no intention to call her? Something here obviously doesn't mesh. In all other cases, as someone else pointed out, the discomfort threshhold has loooong been passed by the time the girl has said anything. He's learned jack all about her view.

e: The reliable indicator that you're weirding out some random woman is that you're not in a single's bar and acting like your trying to have sex with her.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#78

Post by balabaster »

juliangoldsmith wrote: post #33
semperfaux wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really at all. The analogy is entirely wrong. Yes, the exercise anecdotally served the purpose of improving his confidence. But no, your assumption that he would be unable to ask for a number he really wanted is unfounded and has nothing to do with your false analogy.

>your assumption that he would be unable to ask for a number he really wanted is unfounded Not if he has social anxiety.

Also, asking for something you're not emotionally invested in has little bearing to asking for something you're emotionally invested in. As an example: Asking someone you only just met for their number bears little resemblance to asking a someone you really like to go for coffee or dinner with you... when you're emotionally invested, rejection stings.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#79

Post by macromaniac »

Ensorceled wrote: post #52
mod wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find anything in that story to be douchey. What he's really doing is using interaction with women as practice to be better at interaction with women. I'm not really sure how else he should do it. Maybe he could have established friendships with them, and "used" them even further?

Really? Try to imagine a world where EVERY guy resolved to ask 1 pretty girl a day for her phone number to improve his own self confidence. Now imagine being a pretty girl in such a world. Now try to figure out what purpose the pretty girl is serving in this self help exercise and if she had the option to opt out?

Would I be equally in the wrong for making small talk because I was bored?

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#80

Post by kelnos »

kyleblarson wrote: post #51

Very good article, but I would say that exposure therapy has limits. I live in an area with lots of rattlesnakes and am terrified of them. I'm certainly not going to risk a venomous bite to get over my fear.

I think the idea is that exposure therapy helps you get over irrational fears. Fear of a venomous snake isn't really irrational.
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