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Why Do All Records Sound the Same?

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Re: Why Do All Records Sound the Same?

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Per the article, the "mainstream" is literally music for people who don't like music . No doubt your parents thought the same about your music choices.

Did you read the article? Hence me saying "per the article". They specifically look for people who aren't into music to test against.

I see what you mean now. Although "don't like music" is not the same as "aren't into music". This goes back to the definition of what "real" music is. I'm fairly certain suburban moms (one of the suggested demographics in the article) will know quite a lot about radio-friendly music through their kids. In that sense they are an ideal demographic. I also don't see a problem with testing the hooks of songs against the market before making a substantial effort in promoting those songs -- that's common sense.

Re: Why Do All Records Sound the Same?

#72

So many problems with this article. I recently started recording music after a long break and I love that everything is in the computer now. I had one of the very first Pro tools systems and it cost $12,000 (25MB hard drive). Gear that used to cost hundreds of thousands of dollars is now available with a click. I had always wanted to use great compressors and they are almost all available now as plug-ins. I also took…

But auto tune isn't always used as a "special effect" ala "Love After Loss" robo-voice. Most autotune is subtle enhancement to vocal tracks that really don't need it. It will give any singer laser like accuracy, at the expense of removing all character from their voice. How does that not contribute to homogeneity? Granted, every decade has had its recording trends. I agree that the article misunderstands the pop busi…

In the past few years the robo-voice was overused so there was some homogeneity to the vocal sound, although the actual music was still different. Now, that robo-voice is not as popular. As you mention, Autotune's main use is not so much as a creative tool, but as a way to fix problems. Most of the time this is simply to fix otherwise good takes without having to redo them over and over again. The idea is to make edits that are not noticable or as they say "the best edit you can't hear". Simple intro to the plugin here: http://vimeo.com/91670669

Re: Why Do All Records Sound the Same?

#73

So many problems with this article. I recently started recording music after a long break and I love that everything is in the computer now. I had one of the very first Pro tools systems and it cost $12,000 (25MB hard drive). Gear that used to cost hundreds of thousands of dollars is now available with a click. I had always wanted to use great compressors and they are almost all available now as plug-ins. I also took…

Hi, Thanks for reading! I think we agree more than you think. What I wanted to do with the article was explain why music sounds like it does, explaining why the 'rules' are the way they are. I hate it when people imply producers are stupid or lazy or unskilled or uncreative because they're making pop - if it was easy to craft a radio hit that will cut through in 7 seconds in a listening session, we'd all be doing it…

Thanks for writing the article. I'm in the middle of rediscovering the tools of recording so it made me think about many things.

Re: Why Do All Records Sound the Same?

#74
post #64
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pitch and tempos are shifted, but more nefariously, the pieces of the songs which don't fit the VI-I-V progression are removed and replaced by pieces of other songs which do fit. It's deliberate and meticulous cherry-picking. The only thing all the songs have in common is that they're in 4/4 and the verses and choruses all start on the VI chord. I should make a table showing the actual chord progressions from eac…

That would require you to listen to and chart out these 6 mediocre songs. I wouldn't ask you to do that. You've got a music background, I take it?

I listened to them last night, and started the chart. Should be ready tomorrow. A couple of the songs are actually decent. :)

Re: Why Do All Records Sound the Same?

#75
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favourite story about file formats and recording; Sufjan Stevens recorded his album Michigan on a little digital 8-track. He hadn't realised that there was a switch to set it to 32khz or 44.1khz. So he recorded the whole album at 32khz, then dumped it into Pro Tools two tracks at a time via the 1/8th inch jack and lined up the tracks by eye. It's not some grungy, lo-fi album, but full of complicated orchestrations…

Just a reminder that Tape Op (the magazine cited above) is free; you just have to register. They even send you their print copy for free, which is wonderful.

Sorry, you're right, I should have made that clear. Unfortunately they don't do the paper edition in Europe any more... That particular article is only available in the $2 digital archive issue. If you like Sufjan Stevens or enjoy reading articles that make your jaw drop, it's definitely worth the money.

Re: Why Do All Records Sound the Same?

#76
post #69

You think pop is homogenous, try Country: http://kbia.org/post/you-know-exactly-what-these-6-country-s...

This was referenced in earlier posts here but these are also chopped up and edited to fit.

And besides, this is also pop. The original article mostly discusses pop rock (compared to rock music generally created for other markets than top 40 pop) but country follows the same industry trends. There's country music that's meant to get on the radio and sell hit records and there's country music that is going for something different.

Just as you have a Maroon 5 for every White Stripes, you have an Old 97's or Eddie Spaghetti for every band on this list of 6 nearly identical songs.

Re: Why Do All Records Sound the Same?

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That can't actually account for perceived loudness, which modern mastering processes do account for. The absolute amplitude of a song has always been fixed, by the technology delivering the audio. Radio, the primary medium for music discovery throughout most of our lives, has a very hard upper bound (set by both the technology and the FCC), thus a compressor/limiter is employed at the final stage before sending the a…

The main weapons in raising perceived loudness are brickwall limiters such as Waves L3 which raise RMS (root mean square) amplitude while keeping peak levels constant. I think soundcheck is based on RMS, please correct me if I'm wrong - if it were based on peak levels then as you say it would indeed be useless. I don't know how much or whether the other technologies you mention really help to boost perceived loudness…

That's if they can cheat RMS anyway - I'm not sure they can but if you do have data on that I'd be interested to see it.

RMS is a measure of power, not of perception. You don't have to defeat RMS to defeat perceived loudness.

But, you're right that a playback device could take measures to defeat the perceived loudness baked in (though they'd get quite complex, as the tools for baking it in are extremely complex these days, and I don't actually understand half of them, despite having studied audio in college and worked in the industry). I don't know if it would actually improve listener experience to do so, though. Ending the "Oh shit that's loud!" and "Why is this song so quiet?" problem would be positive for listeners, of course. But, at what cost?

"Analog radio would still be mastered stupidly loud. I would assume final stage compression in radio broadcast is keyed on peak not RMS level, again please correct me if I'm wrong. But it's a dying medium anyway."

Analog radio (and digital broadcast radio, as they still compress, despite some of the technical reasons for doing so being gone, inertia is strong in broadcast; I have noticed that Pandora and Spotify do not do any sort of compression, however, which is nice...but also annoying when the playlist has new and old music as the difference can be massive and unnerving) was among the earliest adopters of various technology to make music perceptively louder. Aural Exciters (a very early salvo in the loudness war) were available in a broadcast targeted version from very early on, etc.

I haven't been in the broadcast industry in a long time, and I worked in television rather than radio (though the station I worked for shared a tower with several radio stations and another TV station), but I'm reasonably confident radio stations in major markets still tend to have the most modern "make it loud!" devices available. Loudness=listeners in radio. That's why the loudness wars are happening.

Re: Why Do All Records Sound the Same?

#78

So many problems with this article. I recently started recording music after a long break and I love that everything is in the computer now. I had one of the very first Pro tools systems and it cost $12,000 (25MB hard drive). Gear that used to cost hundreds of thousands of dollars is now available with a click. I had always wanted to use great compressors and they are almost all available now as plug-ins. I also took…

Hi, Thanks for reading! I think we agree more than you think. What I wanted to do with the article was explain why music sounds like it does, explaining why the 'rules' are the way they are. I hate it when people imply producers are stupid or lazy or unskilled or uncreative because they're making pop - if it was easy to craft a radio hit that will cut through in 7 seconds in a listening session, we'd all be doing it…

[deleted]

Re: Why Do All Records Sound the Same?

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But auto tune isn't always used as a "special effect" ala "Love After Loss" robo-voice. Most autotune is subtle enhancement to vocal tracks that really don't need it. It will give any singer laser like accuracy, at the expense of removing all character from their voice. How does that not contribute to homogeneity? Granted, every decade has had its recording trends. I agree that the article misunderstands the pop busi…

In the past few years the robo-voice was overused so there was some homogeneity to the vocal sound, although the actual music was still different. Now, that robo-voice is not as popular. As you mention, Autotune's main use is not so much as a creative tool, but as a way to fix problems. Most of the time this is simply to fix otherwise good takes without having to redo them over and over again. The idea is to make edi…

My point is, even as a fix-it tool, when over used, it removes natural fluctuations in a persons voice, and creates sameness.

Re: Why Do All Records Sound the Same?

#80
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pitch and tempos are shifted, but more nefariously, the pieces of the songs which don't fit the VI-I-V progression are removed and replaced by pieces of other songs which do fit. It's deliberate and meticulous cherry-picking. The only thing all the songs have in common is that they're in 4/4 and the verses and choruses all start on the VI chord. I should make a table showing the actual chord progressions from eac…

Please, if you do it, let us know.

I took a stab at it:

http://baddox.github.io/six_country_songs.html

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