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What happens to your bike after it’s stolen

seattlemet.com

71–80 of 86 posts

Re: What happens to your bike after it’s stolen

#71
post #65

Somewhere in the last year or so I read an article arguing that the reason bike theft is so attractive is that although the reward (to the thief) of the crime is small, the risk is practically zero. The suggestion was that if the police managed to successfully investigate and prosecute even a small fraction of bike thefts, they could increase the risk to the thief by several orders of magnitude. Since the reward is s…

What if the cost of investigating, prosecuting and sentencing is 100x more than what the bike is worth (very conservative guess)?

$1k bikes are naturally pretty common targets for theft (as it's pretty easy to break a $100 lock. More expensive bikes generally doesn't mean better security, but it often means more demand to steal it).

At that price, I really wouldn't consider 100k to investigate, prosecute and sentence a very conservative guess. Seems a bit on the high end. Stealing a bike doesn't result in jail generally (expensive). The prosecution is usually quick and easy (tons of similar cases) and the penalty is usually a fine for first-time offenders.

What you also often see in crime is the 80/20 effect. For example here in Amsterdam they created a list of 500 people who often ran into trouble with the police and focused a lot of effort on them. As each and every one of them plans and executes on an elaborate theft say once a month, they're responsible for more than 10 of such cases every single day. The other thousands of people who commit a theft might do it incidentally, like once every few years or once in their life, and usually not something elaborate.

Same with bike theft, I think. I've actually seen big vans with a team of 3 operate at night. They'll throw 15 bikes that are locked but not attached into the van in the span of 5 minutes with the 3 of em, then drive off to some garage and spend the next 5 hours relaxed cutting through the locks in comfort with the right tools. They'll switch neighborhoods every now and then, and sell 20 at a time to struggling obscure bike shops that need a bigger profit than what they can get if they buy straight from the factory.

If you have 2-3 of such teams operate in your city and do two weekly runs that's easily a million bucks, that's, you can probably get rid of them for a few hundred thousand bucks and recuperate 100k from the thieves. But you prevent a million in theft and restore a bit of social order. Of course it's not just the theft, it's also the broken-window theory stuff. The notion of escalating crime, and of affluent people moving to other places if you let this + 50 other things like this slip, and you end up with dropping rents and an imbalance of disproportionate amounts of low-socioeconomic individuals living there. Bit of a slippery slope argument I know but it's not far from the truth.

Re: What happens to your bike after it’s stolen

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who doesn't have a car and is broke, investing in my bike makes a lot of sense - public transit costs 100/month[1], my transportation bike cost 800$ and my yearly cost to maintain it is 100$ (tires, tube, chain). Therefore, in the first year, I save money. My bike is fast and convenient for getting around, which makes it a reasonable alternative to other transportation methods (it's faster than traveling b…

The difference between an $800 bike and a $100 second hand one isn't really that big. You certainly can't call the other one a shitty, impractical bike, as I see hundreds of thousands of people around me ride on them just fine. From menial workers to bank managers, no joke, hell the bank manager in a suit riding a shitty rattling $50 is a common sight, as anyone here in Amsterdam! It's only shitty because it looks sh…

or people who live in cities where you can cycle straight for half a mile without making a turn or running in to a stoplight

I think Amsterdam here is the exception rather than the rule - most other places I've cycled have bikes on the road with cars rather than segregated tracks. Then, a faster bike makes a lot of sense, both from a safety standpoint (being able to accelerate quickly can get you out of trouble sometimes) and because you can actually hit your higher top speed, to shorten your commute.

Obviously there are diminishing returns - going from a $150 bike to a $300 bike is a big upgrade, and going from a $300 bike to say a $1000 bike probably makes less of a difference. But certainly in London (and Seattle from my experience, and probably many places in the US) I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that a nice road bike can make a bigger difference.

For context, here are some of the roads I cycle down when I cycle to work:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5110521,-0.0613274,3a,75y,...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5106455,-0.0835212,3a,75y,...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5118519,-0.0973481,3a,75y,...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5091639,-0.1195712,3a,75y,...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4853524,-0.1432872,3a,75y,...

Re: What happens to your bike after it’s stolen

#73
post #6

I wonder to what extend the intensity of bike theft will incentivize bike users to buy and use bikes of low value. I have conflicting anecdotal experiences about this. I lived in Rotterdam, where bike theft is intense, but where people usually ride cheap bikes every day, and where you know you can buy a cheap bike to someone in the street, for a price as low a ten euros. Bikes are a cheap commodity in Rotterdam. In S…

I live in a college town and worked at the college for a time. My commuting bike is an ugly assemblage of recycled parts, but carefully maintained, a it rides like a dream.

Re: What happens to your bike after it’s stolen

#74
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Routinely opened with a Bic pen jammed into the keyhole (from the article). This one model of locks. That was fixed in 2004. The whole first paragraph is fluff. The author does not know how bikes are actually stolen. I had a nice bike and lived in NYC. I used the New York Fahgettaboudit Mini [1] and a small cheap chain for the front wheel. The Fahgettaboudit has anti-theft protection up to $4,500 in US. If you are…

Honest question: Do you know anyone who has successfully redeemed the Kryptonite anti-theft protection?

No, but I never knew anyone who had their bike stolen using a Kryptonite New Yorker lock.

Re: What happens to your bike after it’s stolen

#75
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to wonder why people would often use a natural gas main as a locking point. Now I realize that it provides a decent defence against angle grinder attacks (or at least gets any thief some public safety or trumped-up terrorism charge).

Interestingly enough, intentionally setting a trap (even on your own property that you expect to be burglarized) has been ruled to be unlawful unless your life is in danger. "The law has always placed a higher value upon human safety than upon mere rights in property." [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katko_v._Briney

Intent would be difficult to prove, versus "Its a convenient tied down point."

Re: What happens to your bike after it’s stolen

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be true in the US but definitely not in Europe. I guess here they get hauled off to Poland where there's still some value in them.

That's just plain stupid and tad racist. You'd be extremely surprised to learn that these are sold for £10 or £20 not far from when they've been stolen.

Can you explain the racism part to me as I fail to see it. It's racist to say that bike prices are higher in Poland?

Re: What happens to your bike after it’s stolen

#77

I follow two principles to avoid bike theft: 1. always lock both wheels and the frame up with a very thick U lock, and 2. ride a bike less expensive to replace than repair. I regularly find bikes at Goodwill, flea markets, etc that are not stolen but are dirt cheap ($50, $100, etc). Even found a banged up old bike (dead tires, bad derailleur/gears) laying in a gutter. May not be the best ride in the world but it gets…

> don't leave it locked up outside. If I stopped locking my bike outside, I would likely never use it in the city.

Re: What happens to your bike after it’s stolen

#78
post #65

Somewhere in the last year or so I read an article arguing that the reason bike theft is so attractive is that although the reward (to the thief) of the crime is small, the risk is practically zero. The suggestion was that if the police managed to successfully investigate and prosecute even a small fraction of bike thefts, they could increase the risk to the thief by several orders of magnitude. Since the reward is s…

What if the cost of investigating, prosecuting and sentencing is 100x more than what the bike is worth (very conservative guess)?

This is the broken window theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

The (somewhat controversial) idea is that if you go out of your way to punish smaller crimes, people don't do the bigger ones. It wasn't cost effective for police in NYC to stop the smaller crimes (people spraying water on your windshield and asking for a dollar to wipe it off) but larger crimes dropped with it.

If you view police as a fixed cost, then perhaps it is worthwhile.

That said, there are plenty of holes in the theory.

Gary Becker writes a lot about the economics of crime too. http://chicagomaroon.com/2012/05/25/the-economics-of-crime-w...

Re: What happens to your bike after it’s stolen

#79
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just plain stupid and tad racist. You'd be extremely surprised to learn that these are sold for £10 or £20 not far from when they've been stolen.

Can you explain the racism part to me as I fail to see it. It's racist to say that bike prices are higher in Poland?

It is racist to imply bikes are stolen by Poles and probably also to say that a shitty bike not worth selling round the corner for £20 is worth hauling all the way to Poland.

Re: What happens to your bike after it’s stolen

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think bait bikes are a good solution. Put out a few normal looking bikes with gps trackers in them, and have stiff fines for those who get caught. Making locks safe against an angle grinder isnt really feasible, but making someone think twice before even trying because it's a bait bike might work.

Only three problems with that: Firstly, bait bikes are inevitably going to be cheap bikes. Thieves are more interested in expensive bikes - and if the expensive bikes are not only more profitable, but also safer to steal, then they're bound to step up their lock-picking and angle-grinding game. Secondly, finding someone to organise this would be difficult. Any single organisation sufficiently large enough to do this…

You make it sound like bike thieves knowing about the bait bikes would be a bad thing, when in fact that's the point. You want thieves to know about it, and be scared that any bike they make try to steal is a bait bike. They definitely couldn't be the same model, but I don't think that's as difficult as you make it sound. Isn't there a pretty successful program in San francisco starting out?
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