Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#71

Post by zanny » Mon, Dec 22, 2014, 9:57 PM UTC

joshvm wrote: post #59

kansface wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The oatmeal wrote about it: | Google's new fleet was intentionally designed to look adorable... By turning self-driving cars into an adorable Skynet Marshmallow Bumper Bots, Google hopes to spiritually disarm other drivers. I also suspect the cuteness is used to quell some of the road rage that might emerge from being stuck behind one of these things. They're intended as moderate-distance couriers, not open-road warr…

Is the 25mph limit a US thing? In the UK the normal minimum (aside from select residential zones where the neighbours complain) is 30mph. Many people would be very annoyed to sit behind a car doing 5 below the speed limit.

Many people in the US are very annoying to sit behind someone doing 5 above the speed limit in many places (and I don't mean just highways, where the speed limit is just an unlimited police funding scheme through being able to ticket anyone whenever you want).

I imagine they did 25mph because its slow enough to appease representatives in letting them put the car on the road. Nobody with the ability to actually make this happen is rational or knowledgeable about this, and will behave like psychotic monkeys when confronted with autos, so Google is using every trick in the book to make these look innocent, including Grandma grade speed limits.

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#72

Post by zanny » Mon, Dec 22, 2014, 9:58 PM UTC

brianstorms wrote: post #38

LukeB_UK wrote: post #27

Matthew Inman of The Oatmeal got to have a ride in one and shared his thoughts here: http://theoatmeal.com/blog/google_self_driving_car

It actually looks like a car that would fit in well with the overall design motif of The Oatmeal.

He also owns a Model S.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#73

Post by toyg » Mon, Dec 22, 2014, 9:58 PM UTC

nichodges wrote: post #11

My initial reaction was dismay that Google seemingly didn't consult any decent auto designers on this. But then I wonder if that's actually fine. My kids will likely be baffled by the idea that we attached so much of our own identity to our cars. The financial investment in cars to make a statement about ourselves (over and above getting us from A to B) is immensely irrational. With self driving cars ownership will l…

> With self driving cars ownership will likely disappear

That's a bold statement. It might become more of a luxury, i.e. something you buy when you reach a certain income, rather than something you need to live. But disappear, no, it won't.

As anecdote, I can bring the experience of European life. In a lot of European towns and cities, you can live quite comfortably without a car, today -- after all, they were built for people and horses. Rich people (or people who want to be seen as wealthy) still buy huge SUVs -- and then struggle to park them, because they're not as thin as a horse.

In London, a lot of people simply use cabs to move around most of the time; but sure enough, if they have a decent income, they'll buy a car and park it somewhere, ready to be driven during their countryside weekends.

Already today, car ownership has very little to do with convenience; it's mostly about ownership and individualism, something that is completely opposite to the concept of sharing. My wife is absolutely horrified at the thought of sharing anything ("germs! ruined things!" etc etc), and that will not change because of Google or Uber.

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#74

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Dec 22, 2014, 9:58 PM UTC

zzleeper wrote: post #5

sparkzilla wrote: post #3

This thing looks like a clown car. Perfect for those who think Glass is the height of fashion.

Indeed. Looks "cute", but cute doesn't sell with cars..

> Indeed. Looks "cute", but cute doesn't sell with cars..

I don't really see Google looking to sell these to consumers. What I see Google doing is some combination of:

1) Selling services to consumers which self-driving cars help deliver (Google Now cards currently give you approximate time to likely destinations -- maybe in the future they also include the time including how long it will take a Google Car to get to you to pick you up and take you.)

2) Using them for Google's own use -- driverless Street View cars, for instance.

3) Demonstrating a technology platform that car companies that do want to sell to consumers can purchase -- and put underneath their own styling.

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#75

Post by bane » Mon, Dec 22, 2014, 9:59 PM UTC

Lots of people are point at this being Uber's future "auto-car". Here's an alternative idea:

- You can buy this car. It costs $100,000. But that's okay.

- When you aren't actively using it, you tell it to go "Uber mode" and pick up and drive people around as part of the "Uber Network of Cars"

- You split the fee with Uber/Lyft/whoever. They get 30%, you get 70%.

If the average ride pays you $7, over 5 years that's like 8 rides your car has to "sell" per day to be effectively "free" to you (except for financing, insurance, etc.).

- At the end of the workday, Google Now summons your car to pick you up in front of your office and whisk you home.

- After dropping you off at home, your car goes back onto Uber mode and does night-time service (if you opt-in).

You could probably pay your car off much earlier than 5 years with more rides/higher average ride fare, after which your car is making you money. Clever people will use this extra to finance more cars to run small fleets and effectively live without working.

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#76

Post by millstone » Mon, Dec 22, 2014, 10:00 PM UTC

jastanton wrote: post #42

Google has had much more PR about it's revolutionary tech and that has a LOT going for it. When tesla comes out with their self driving car, if it looks 100x better than this prototype, I still might pick Google. Better aesthetics with comparable functionality will win the majority of time in my book (think Android devices vs Apple devices), however when it comes times to putting my life on the line, I will go with s…

"Much more PR" than what? The only ads for self-driving cards I've seen are Ford's ads for its automatic parallel parking.

And far from "dominating," Google is a small player in any market for physical goods in which it competes. They're much more likely to license their technology to other manufacturers than sell it directly to consumers.

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#77

Post by 3apo » Mon, Dec 22, 2014, 10:03 PM UTC

venaoy wrote: post #56

3apo wrote: post #34

From an economic standpoint, I would be interested to see how many OTC parts this system. That is, does it need a $1000 lidar or would it get a similar performance with a cheap $100 sensor? From a technical point of view, 25mph is very limiting IMO. You probably do not need a very sophisticated controller to navigate at 25. If you reach speeds of 60-70MPH with varying road curvatures, the controller design gets trick…

I disagree. City driving at 25 mph is a lot more complicated and needs a lot more computing power than highway driving at 60-70 mph. City driving involves: handling the "dead zone" of intersection (square of pavement with no marking), poorly marked roads, pedestrians/cyclists/cars getting in your way, complex turn lanes, etc. By comparison highway driving is a piece of cake: clearly marked lanes, no sharp turns, no i…

What you say is true - city driving is complicated with too many decisions to make, but it does not need a very optimized controller to control the car through those scenarios. Changing a lane at 15-25MPH is far more easier than on a turning highway with merging traffic at 55-60MPH. At that speed the controller would not only need to safely execute the maneuver but also stabilize the vehicle in the event it needs to come to a halt or take an evasive action.

Moreover if there is say some uncertainty in the sensor readings at 25mph, that is multiplied by many factors at higher speeds and becomes very significant. Control at higher speeds has more stability issues and can deal with less uncertainty and than at lower speeds.

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#78

Post by zanny » Mon, Dec 22, 2014, 10:04 PM UTC

manticore_alpha wrote: post #2

Unfortunately, these things just don't have a cool factor. Here's to hoping Tesla moves forward much more quickly (and regular car manufacturers as well.) It's something Google probably just doesn't "get" - but a lot of people's identities are tied to their cars. It's why we have colors, shapes, brands, options. This car may be "perfect" algorithmically, but it doesn't mean it stirs the soul.

Autos will never be sold to consumers. At least the general public. Or at least average people will never buy one.

It is a tremendous, insane, unacceptable waste to have autos parked all day. The only way these things make sense is through subscription services where you can summon a car from a fleet whenever you want, so that you can maximize utilization.

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#79

Post by rschapman » Mon, Dec 22, 2014, 10:05 PM UTC

joshvm wrote: post #59

kansface wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The oatmeal wrote about it: | Google's new fleet was intentionally designed to look adorable... By turning self-driving cars into an adorable Skynet Marshmallow Bumper Bots, Google hopes to spiritually disarm other drivers. I also suspect the cuteness is used to quell some of the road rage that might emerge from being stuck behind one of these things. They're intended as moderate-distance couriers, not open-road warr…

Is the 25mph limit a US thing? In the UK the normal minimum (aside from select residential zones where the neighbours complain) is 30mph. Many people would be very annoyed to sit behind a car doing 5 below the speed limit.

A lot of golf cart like vehicles operate at this speed. We had a few dozen at the university and all of the "street legal" ones had a limit stamped on them of 25mph.

Re: Google Self-Driving Car Project's first vehicle prototype

#80

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Dec 22, 2014, 10:09 PM UTC

ender7 wrote: post #66

joshvm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the 25mph limit a US thing? In the UK the normal minimum (aside from select residential zones where the neighbours complain) is 30mph. Many people would be very annoyed to sit behind a car doing 5 below the speed limit.

35mph is the normal minimum in the US, outside of some neighborhoods where it gets as low as 20-25mph. The 25mph speed is a hack around US auto regulations, which are far less strict if the vehicle's max speed is 25mph or less.

> 35mph is the normal minimum in the US

In California, the default speed limit in business or residential districts is 25 mph, this is also the default speed limit for school zones.