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High-DPI displays and Linux

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Re: High-DPI displays and Linux

#71
post #70

Somewhere in the 90's, games were in 320x200 pixel resolution, and the Windows 3.11 desktop was 640x480 pixels or so on a typical 386 computer. Then up to around the year 2000, resolutions increased, going through such stages as 800x600, 1024x768 and 1280x1024 (your CRT would flicker if much higher, and then LCDs came along pinning it at 1280x1024 for 17"). Then the resolution (or especially DPI) growth basically sto…

I am guessing - is it because of HDMI and its abysmal bandwidth? Before with VGA the actual resolution of CRT monitors was limited by RAMDAC. And 10 years ago I was able to to have 2048x1536@70Hz on a top-end 15" CRT already. I guess as nowadays all digital signal is routed through content protection filter, the technology processing these streams wasn't performing well, causing stagnation in display resolutions for…

20Gbps is certainly non-trivial amount of bandwidth to put in a cheap, consumer cable. The whole system is hard to make work for cheap; I would think HDCP chips would not be a bottleneck at all.

Re: High-DPI displays and Linux

#72
Regarding the problem of the external display, the DPI disparity is "easily" solved by configuring the external display with a high apparent resolution but down-scaling to what the device actually supports[1]:

xrandr --output --scale 2.0x2.0

The output_name can be found just by running "xrandr".

A related and more powerful feature is specifying an arbitrary matrix for the screen-display transformation (e.g. rotation by any angle, shear) (xrandr --transform).

[1] http://superuser.com/questions/825688/down-scaling-high-dens...

Re: High-DPI displays and Linux

#73
post #46
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it stopped. I just tossed a 10 year old CRT with a 2560x2048 resolution. The key is that tech switched over to favoring LCDs which are finally catching up, and in some cases, passing CRT.

I don't agree that the stagnation in resolution evolution was an artifact of the CRT to LCD conversion. I put the blame on the convergence of the living room and desktop display markets and the disturbing marketing effectiveness of the "HD" moniker [1]. Resolution didn't simply stagnate; it regressed. In approximately 2000, Dell sold laptops with 1600x1200 LCD displays. Once "HD" appeared, display manufacturers lost…

I blame porn, and more generally, the desire for flashy colours in the consumer market. Circa 1990 we had 1600×1200 monochrome CRTs at work, and nothing I've used since has equaled them for text. Considering displays as effectively limited by signal bandwidth, colour forces a √3 drop in linear resolution.

Re: High-DPI displays and Linux

#74
I'm surprised that nobody has talked about using the Xorg -dpi flag. I am a MacBook Retina user (but exclusively run Linux -- a long story) and i actually find the results reasonable. I had to go to a bit of effort, but finally i managed a reasonable result by changing the way the X server is started (adding the -dpi 227 flag) and modifying Firefox's devPerPx option. The rest sort of "automagically" worked IIRC. I should however add that my setup is minimalistic -- Xmonad and very few non-terminal apps.

Re: High-DPI displays and Linux

#75

I'm surprised that nobody has talked about using the Xorg -dpi flag. I am a MacBook Retina user (but exclusively run Linux -- a long story) and i actually find the results reasonable. I had to go to a bit of effort, but finally i managed a reasonable result by changing the way the X server is started (adding the -dpi 227 flag) and modifying Firefox's devPerPx option. The rest sort of "automagically" worked IIRC. I sh…

Would be very interesting to see the results - I think knowing the DPI and scaling accordingly is probably the better way to go about it .. it'll reveal the broken apps quicker, anyway.

Re: High-DPI displays and Linux

#76
The saddest thing about this is that X11 was intended from the start to support multiple DPIs (see e.g. xdpyinfo(1)) and originally shipped with rasterized fonts in multiple resolutions. Sadly the "year of the desktop" crowd has been absolutely consistent in forcing *nix UIs down into the Windows mold.

Re: High-DPI displays and Linux

#77

I'm surprised that nobody has talked about using the Xorg -dpi flag. I am a MacBook Retina user (but exclusively run Linux -- a long story) and i actually find the results reasonable. I had to go to a bit of effort, but finally i managed a reasonable result by changing the way the X server is started (adding the -dpi 227 flag) and modifying Firefox's devPerPx option. The rest sort of "automagically" worked IIRC. I sh…

If you ever had time to put together a blog post with your config files, I'm sure more than a few people would be interested. I know I have struggled with setting up a reasonably looking Linux on the MBP Retina, and in the end given up.

Re: High-DPI displays and Linux

#78
post #70

Somewhere in the 90's, games were in 320x200 pixel resolution, and the Windows 3.11 desktop was 640x480 pixels or so on a typical 386 computer. Then up to around the year 2000, resolutions increased, going through such stages as 800x600, 1024x768 and 1280x1024 (your CRT would flicker if much higher, and then LCDs came along pinning it at 1280x1024 for 17"). Then the resolution (or especially DPI) growth basically sto…

I am guessing - is it because of HDMI and its abysmal bandwidth? Before with VGA the actual resolution of CRT monitors was limited by RAMDAC. And 10 years ago I was able to to have 2048x1536@70Hz on a top-end 15" CRT already. I guess as nowadays all digital signal is routed through content protection filter, the technology processing these streams wasn't performing well, causing stagnation in display resolutions for…

It was/is because LCDs have fixed resolutions. High DPI displays was a niche, with CRTs you could satisfy that niche without sacrificing the mainstream audience since you didn't have to force people to run any specific resolution.

The reason for why high DPI was a niche was because of one thing, and one thing only: software. You had to have good eyesight and seek a large screen real estate to even be able to make use of it.

Software didn't scale well. We had small laptop screens with 1920x1200 in the early 2000s. It barely cost more than lower resolution displays (back then you typically had three different resolutions to choose from for every laptop (then came apple)). It was real apparent even back then that high-DPI wasn't costly at all, it just wasn't mainstream enough for anyone to care.

Fast forward a decade and we have the exact same problem. Software can't scale shit. The only reason apple was first with high-dpi was because they controlled the software, and they took the easy way out. They just scaled everything up 4 times and look at that, exactly the same screen real estate with just higher DPI. Same thing with iPhone 4 - the only reason they increased the resolution so much was so that they wouldn't have to bother with scaling ("retina" was just an added bonus). Remember that niche that sought large screen real estate and that bought high-resolution CRTs in the 90's? Well, they are still waiting for a decent LCD...

As for HDMI, no, firstly HDMI was never intended for computers at all. But the hype in combination with small laptops forced it upon us anyway. But HDMI came much later anyway, the battle for high-resolution/high-DPI displays was already lost (because of software). The real technical hurdle was the OSD and scaling chips. Again, the reason for why apple was first with the 30" 2560x1600 display was because they were the first ones that could ditch both the OSD and all scaling from the monitor. It only had brightness adjustments (no OSD) and all of the scaling was done on the graphic card, that way you couldn't pair it with a regular PC - if you did you would have to use another monitor to be able to enter BIOS, install the OS, enter safe-mode, or game on any other resolution (which you pretty much had to). Of course, eventually most graphic cards could do so but apple were the first to be able to assume that the monitor would be paired with such a graphic card.

That and the fact that Dual-Link-DVI was quite rare (hardly surprising since there were no monitors on the market that used it).

Oh and people, I hope you (not parent, but lots of others) didn't run 1280x1024 on your 4:3 CRTs. The only 5:4 monitors that existed were 17" and 19" LCDs. You should have used 1600x1200 or 1280x900, that is, if you didn't want to stretch everything.

Re: High-DPI displays and Linux

#79

Somewhere in the 90's, games were in 320x200 pixel resolution, and the Windows 3.11 desktop was 640x480 pixels or so on a typical 386 computer. Then up to around the year 2000, resolutions increased, going through such stages as 800x600, 1024x768 and 1280x1024 (your CRT would flicker if much higher, and then LCDs came along pinning it at 1280x1024 for 17"). Then the resolution (or especially DPI) growth basically sto…

The development you're describing is the timeline of how this stuff trickled into inexpensive consumer hardware.

Expensive workstations already had big monitors and 1280x1024 resolutions in the 1980's.

Also, on a related tangent: prior to 1970, computers already ran with processor clocks over 30 Mhz, with 32 bit (or larger) words, and virtual memory. These things did not show up in the Intel 80368 and start to be supported in Windows 95. :)

Re: High-DPI displays and Linux

#80

I have a Thinkpad Yoga 2 Pro (3200x1800 @ 13"), and often use an external monitor. My "solution" is to turn off HiDPI and rely on the zoom features in all of my apps. (terminal, emacs & browsers) Browser windows on the laptop usually run at a zoom of 200%, whereas windows on the external display run at 90%. Annoying, but the beautiful text is worth the bother.

Wait, you can use the Yoga as an external monitor for another device? That's sweet.
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