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Ask HN: How to address female coworkers getting paid less

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Re: Ask HN: How to address female coworkers getting paid less

#71

Post by mmcru »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #55
orbifold wrote: post #40

One sort of rational explanation for a lower wage is that females might get pregnant and need leave for that, although that probably does not justify the difference (I haven't done the calculations). That is also why insurance prices offered to females / males are often different insofar the law allows it.

That's an outrageous reason to discriminate against someone. A man also might take leave after their child is born. A woman might not get pregnant. Someone might be predisposed to sickness, but you still wouldn't be justified in using your crystal ball and tarot cards in order to pay them a lower wage.

you must really hate the insurance field, huh

Re: Ask HN: How to address female coworkers getting paid less

#72

Post by patio11 »

Bahamut wrote: post #69
patio11 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charge more. Just humor me and pitch the next client at $125/hr, which is more in line with market in your neck of the woods. (And the necessity for this post, folks, is one of the many, many mechanisms by which a norm of salaries being hidden screws over employees via information asymmetry.)

I'm not a contractor - if I were contracting, I'd definitely charge around that rate.

That's the first time I've ever heard a US-based engineer quote their salary as an hourly number. My mistake. Assuming my mental math is correct and your package is described as "$120k annual salary plus the standard benefits for white collar employees", I withdraw my objection.

If OTOH you're not billing 160 hours a month or you're not getting the standard benefits (healthcare, etc), then you're contracting whether you describe yourself as a contractor or not, so the objection would stand in that case.

(This distinction made for the benefits of other HNers, since I have from time-to-time run into people who think they are employees but who are actually consultants who just happen to have a very thin client list and substandard rates.)

Re: Ask HN: How to address female coworkers getting paid less

#73

Post by DanBC »

jebus989 wrote: post #57
SEJeff wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

British Pounds or USD? If most of the people are talking in USD, then you're making roughly 76k USD.

Less roughly 38k GBP ~= 61k USD. It's been a good half-decade since it was two dollars to the pound.

Also taxes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rates-and-allowan...

Re: Ask HN: How to address female coworkers getting paid less

#74

Post by jenkstom »

My wife had a similar issue, except the other way around. She got paid a bit more than another person (male) who graduated at the same time and had the same amount of experience. When I inquired I was told it was because she was a better negotiator and negotiated a higher salary.

Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% for income equality opportunity. That is, on average, the same experience, education and job pay the same for both sexes, sexual orientations, races, religious and so on.

But taking a single case and making a cause of it is difficult, since it is just a single case.

Re: Ask HN: How to address female coworkers getting paid less

#75

Post by Bahamut »

patio11 wrote: post #72
Bahamut wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a contractor - if I were contracting, I'd definitely charge around that rate.

That's the first time I've ever heard a US-based engineer quote their salary as an hourly number. My mistake. Assuming my mental math is correct and your package is described as "$120k annual salary plus the standard benefits for white collar employees", I withdraw my objection. If OTOH you're not billing 160 hours a month or you're not getting the standard benefits (healthcare, etc), then you're contracting whether…

Well, it's $140k + $9k signing bonus + equity + standard health & dental insurance - I'm already looking at a potential raise in compensation in about 2-4 months or so with a promotion to lead engineer.

Personally, I'm at the point where I don't care as much about the money, it's more about the people I work with. For those not at my point though is why I provide salary info though - it is a nice data point to use to assess for others.

Re: Ask HN: How to address female coworkers getting paid less

#77

Post by wlievens »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #70
wlievens wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$1.00 * 8 * 20 * 12 = $1920 per annum

I'm not following your numbers here. Generally, the calculation I use is this: $1.00 * 40(hrs/wk) * 52(wks/yr) = $2080 per year. ( Usually I'm working the other way to get an hourly number from an annual salary but the math works both ways. )

Yeah that's more correct than twelve twenty-day months. In my locale, wages are expressed monthly so I'm a bit more used to roughly divide by twenty, for instance when calculating the relative cost of daycare.

Re: Ask HN: How to address female coworkers getting paid less

#78

Post by emcarey »

reboog711 wrote: post #61

It sounds like you accidentally saw something you probably shouldn't have; I would keep my mouth shut. There are a lot of factors in any compensation plan, and salary is just one. I'd be cautious about judging too quick based only on a single factor. It is possible that the company is giving themselves negotiating room.

always speak up, never keep your mouth shut, there are laws in place to protect against retaliation for speaking up. One of the unspoken factors in a compensation plan is that women tend to work for less (ie they typically don't negotiate for more). I am a woman, and I've learned to ask for more, but I used to just take what i was offered for face value. It is possible the company expects no one to speak up- and so it goes.

Re: Ask HN: How to address female coworkers getting paid less

#79

Post by chinks81 »

Bahamut wrote: post #75
patio11 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the first time I've ever heard a US-based engineer quote their salary as an hourly number. My mistake. Assuming my mental math is correct and your package is described as "$120k annual salary plus the standard benefits for white collar employees", I withdraw my objection. If OTOH you're not billing 160 hours a month or you're not getting the standard benefits (healthcare, etc), then you're contracting whether…

Well, it's $140k + $9k signing bonus + equity + standard health & dental insurance - I'm already looking at a potential raise in compensation in about 2-4 months or so with a promotion to lead engineer. Personally, I'm at the point where I don't care as much about the money, it's more about the people I work with. For those not at my point though is why I provide salary info though - it is a nice data point to use to…

That's enormously high salary for 2 yr experienced Dev. You must be working for Facebook for such high salary. Care to mention company name at least ?

I know at least 10 - 20 people in CA with four times more experience than you working on 70% of salary of yours.

Don't want to sound venomous but what you are getting is nothing but "bubble" salary.

Re: Ask HN: How to address female coworkers getting paid less

#80

Post by chinks81 »

sirwolfgang wrote: post #10

This is fundamentally one of the biggest cultural changes we have to make. You have to be ok with talking about your personal earning. In a lot of places talking about earnings is more taboo then talking about sex, and sex is generally taboo. Company culture of not talking about earnings only helps the company. It allows them to pay lowest market value for anyone, under the (often true) hopes that they don't know the…

|his is fundamentally one of the biggest cultural changes we have to make. You have to be ok with talking about your personal earning. In a lot of places talking about earnings is more taboo then talking about sex, and sex is generally taboo.

I seriously loathe "inherently stupid" like you. Neither you nor OP knows actual components of package offered to new hires. Let's take gender out of picture for a moment. Now think, how many times you have seen posts coming out from such shitposters because "less salary" was offered to "male" or H1B developers ? Show me at least five.

Things change in two years. May be company does not have as much revenue/profit or "demand of new hire" as it had two years back.

So you literally want to make everyone state their salary ? Do you have any idea how much political environment we all play in ? How many people will literally stab in back for earning $1 more than them ? Because 99 % human nature is such that I work hard than anyone else then why S/He be paid more than me ? We don;t think about background, education, training required to get to speed, expected time to active contribution etc etc.

Are you white ? In reality what you are saying is commonly known as "White Knighting". You are not going to get any more pussy by white knighting. Sure you will make more enemies. This might sound bitter to you but I am speaking truth and Mate, truth hurts.

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