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Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

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Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#71

Yikes. That first picture looks awful. The HDR+ version looks like cheap CGI. Very plasticy. Some of the other pics are nice so that seems like a really weird one to lead with.

As someone who is a pretty serious hobbyist photographer, it is actually the second picture that looks very unnatural to me.

The first one I can imagine existing in "real life" if there were a soft-box enclosed fill light out of the frame that was lighting up the lady's face (it can't be the sun since the tree isn't being lit the way it would if the light hitting her was point-light-esque), which would make the photo very "posed", but still possibly something that isn't highly post-processed.

The second picture with the two ladies is much more distracting. The HDR version keeps a lot more detail than the non-HDR image, but at the expense of making everything look extremely flat and unnatural as your brain tries to process how the lighting is working (this may be unique to people who are used to worrying about light with regards to photography and a non-issue for normal folks, I can't say for sure) since the scene is clearly midday but the light across the entire scene makes it seem like the sun must be very low, which doesn't match with the contents of the scene.

The HDR version of the second photo would look better if the exposure on the two ladies were bumped up close to the value that the background sky was bumped down, but doing that automatically would be an amazing visual detection feat that I wouldn't expect out of a phone camera. The lighting still wouldn't make sense but at least it wouldn't look so flat.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#72
post #5

> However, bracketing is not actually necessary; one can use the same exposure time in every shot. By using a short exposure HDR+ avoids blowing out highlights, and by combining enough shots it reduces noise in the shadows. Does this mean they're using ISO bracketing instead of exposure bracketing?

No, it takes multiple photos with the same settings and just averages out the noise in the shadows. That wouldn't keep the shadows from lacking detail though. You'd just get a smoother black!

From a statistical point of view, you can certainly get less noise, while preserving details, by averaging multiple shots.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, I don't see anything good in his photos. All these post-processed photos lack a lot of detail, even from a smartphone standards.

And this is part of the problem - it was never about detail, or more generally technical perfection. But yet that's where the conversation starts and stops. The conversation around cameras focuses on noise level, dynamic range, or lens sharpness - none of which are particularly critical traits for producing great photography. The Tank Man[1] photograph would not pass muster even by low-end cell phone standards today,…

All other things equal, better equipment will allow you to get better shots. You are aware that the iconic Tank Man photograph was shot from half a mile away. It would have been impossible to shoot with today's camera phones.

I know that when I shoot my banal pictures of banal life, I prefer pictures where the focus isn't accidentally on the background or where the subject hasn't half-exited the frame because of a delay between pressing the button and the shot going off.

Most of us are not in the habit of documenting the Yakuza or happening to be present in world-changing events. We just want to take pictures that look good, even if the subject is banal.

Edit (since I'm not allowed to comment on the post):

> This is the part we disagree. Better knowledge will allow you to get better shots

We're not in disagreement. "All other things equal" means just that - all other things being equal - including knowledge. Of course a bad picture with perfect focus is still a bad picture. Likewise, a good picture can become even better if it's technically accomplished. Tank Man is an iconic photograph solely because of the subject matter. Ansel Adams didn't settle for a dinky rangefinder when heading out into Yosemite. He carried large heavy equipment because it would allow him to capture the detail and sharpness he wanted.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#75
I've been messing around with the Google Camera app and the new Camera API provided by Android 5. It turns out that you can actually obtain a lot higher quality images by using the DNG (digital negative) of the photo, instead of using the JPEG. By "HDRing" images yourself, you can actually outperform Google Camera's HDR+ functionality.

Here's the JPEG, non HDR+ shot on a Nexus 5: http://i.imgur.com/So44muL.jpg

Here's a similar image shot with HDR+: http://i.imgur.com/QFS3ZYd.jpg.

As you can see, the dynamic range is increased greatly; however there's strange black spots in the shadows.

Here's the same photo that I took in DNG format, edited in Lightroom:

http://i.imgur.com/VRFsnf5.jpg

And here's my HDR photo, combined 5 DNG exposures inside Photoshop HDR Pro's functionality:

http://i.imgur.com/RTT6ULz.jpg

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#76
Every picture that is on my VSCO Grid was taken with the HDR+ Photo app. Please note: I have manipulated most of the images. After purchasing the N5 last year, I quickly learned that the Nexus 5 camera should always be set on HDR+. Even though the HDR process takes multiple images. Many of the pictures on my VSCO grid were taken in motion. They still have a focus and do not look blurry.

http://fantasma.vsco.co/

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is part of the problem - it was never about detail, or more generally technical perfection. But yet that's where the conversation starts and stops. The conversation around cameras focuses on noise level, dynamic range, or lens sharpness - none of which are particularly critical traits for producing great photography. The Tank Man[1] photograph would not pass muster even by low-end cell phone standards today,…

All other things equal, better equipment will allow you to get better shots. You are aware that the iconic Tank Man photograph was shot from half a mile away. It would have been impossible to shoot with today's camera phones. I know that when I shoot my banal pictures of banal life, I prefer pictures where the focus isn't accidentally on the background or where the subject hasn't half-exited the frame because of a de…

> "All other things equal, better equipment will allow you to get better shots."

This is the part we disagree. Better knowledge will allow you to get better shots - we've gone past the point long ago where improving technical capability made dramatic improvements to how well people can photograph.

Ultimately what makes or breaks a photograph isn't sharpness, or even focus in particular, it's exposure and composition. That shite picture isn't made any less shite because the focus is bang-on. Likewise, a well-composed image survives a great deal of mis-focus, blur, or other technical faults.

If an image is shit because the focus was off, I'd hate to say it, but it wouldn't have been an excellent image even if the focus was on.

Short of extremely equipment-demanding niches (like macro, or sports) the problem is practically always with the photographer, not their equipment. The photographer is the most common bottleneck in creating great images - of any subject, banal or world-changing. Spend money on education, not more gear - and more importantly, spend time.

Technological advancements will give us much-appreciated conveniences, it won't make you a good shooter when you weren't before.

Side note: this is why I'm a fan of things like iPhonenography classes, as much as people like to mock it. Ultimately putting a camera into everyone's pockets has been great for photography and expression, and elevating the quality of this stuff (whether intended as art or just personal enjoyment) involves education, not gear.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#79
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if each photo is just black because it's underexposed, then adding them together only gives you black.

If the pixels were literally black that would be the case, but even on very underexposed pictures I don't think that ever happens. There's still photons on the sensor, it's just that they are swamped by the noise. Like, most DSLRs nowadays capture 12-bit values, which suggests you would have to underexpose by something on the order of 12EV to truncate the output to zero.

Yes, and that is very, very possible. In any case, doing that would give you some relatively painful quantisation error, which is why the HDR approach works better.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All other things equal, better equipment will allow you to get better shots. You are aware that the iconic Tank Man photograph was shot from half a mile away. It would have been impossible to shoot with today's camera phones. I know that when I shoot my banal pictures of banal life, I prefer pictures where the focus isn't accidentally on the background or where the subject hasn't half-exited the frame because of a de…

> "All other things equal, better equipment will allow you to get better shots." This is the part we disagree. Better knowledge will allow you to get better shots - we've gone past the point long ago where improving technical capability made dramatic improvements to how well people can photograph. Ultimately what makes or breaks a photograph isn't sharpness, or even focus in particular, it's exposure and composition.…

I'm inclined to agree with you, but a bunch of common counterexamples immediately spring to mind. Very often, sorting through a huge amount of low quality phone camera pics from a party or something, I encounter a "happy accident" that would have made a great photo if only: it had been properly in focus, not blown out by light, less noisy (especially when you'd normally crop the pic, phone camera grain is way uglier than film grain), or any of those things that'd a medium-quality camera suffers way less from.

Am I wrong? Is the blurry picture possibly just as great (even if you can't recognize my friends' face?), or would it have turned out to be a shitty picture after all, obscured by the lack of focus?

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