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BitPay and PayPal

blog.bitpay.com

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Re: BitPay and PayPal

#71

Post by danbruc »

u124556 wrote: post #67
danbruc wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, it is mostly a solved problem. The question is, what value does Bitcoin add (for the average customer not interested to buy narcotics on Silk Road) and what is the price for this, for example unsolved security issues and large price fluctuations during the early adoption phase?

Transportation was a solved problem when horse carriages were invented. Every solved problem can be solved even better. Isn't that what most startups are about?

Of course and that is why I ask how Bitcoin improves over the current situation in a way relevant to average people.

Re: BitPay and PayPal

#72

Post by joshuaxls »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #58
joshuaxls wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're in agreement. Since USD is a physical store of value, it suffers from problems like robbery. Hence the need for banks. With bitcoin, you don't need a bank. I have a 24-word passphrase in my head that can be converted to my private key—a "brainwallet". I know it, and my parents do. It's not written down or stored anywhere. It simply isn't physical. With those 24 words, you can unlock all of the value I have stor…

You're okay with someone being able to hold a gun to your head and demand your 24-word passphrase? That's why you need a bank with FDIC protection, even with Bitcoin.

You don’t understand what the FDIC is for. It’s not there to protect your deposits from being stolen by robbers. It exists to ensure consumers that banks are guaranteed to be solvent while they practice fractional reserve banking. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Deposit_Insurance_Corpo...

If someone holds a gun to my head, I would give them my passphrase. I’d also go into my bank and wire my money into their account. In both scenarios, my money is gone forever.

Maybe someday, someone will invent a store of value that is safe, even if someone is threatening to kill you.

Re: BitPay and PayPal

#73

Post by rstupek »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #24
Aqueous wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'What is the value proposition for consumers apart from sending money to friends? That's valuable, but it's not multi-billions of dollars worth of valuable' It isn't? Western Union makes $5 billion in revenue every year. PayPal - and a reference to sending money to friends is literally the name of the company - also makes $5 billion in revenue every year.

Except Bitcoin makes it free to send money to friends. One way I could see this being financially viable to build a company around is if lots of people are storing money in the company's webwallet. Then the company could invest customers' money, like a bank. But if you are using a webwallet like Coinbase, then you are asking to get screwed out of your money, since there are no FDIC protections.

Also it's not free for you to get your bitcoin into fiat.

Re: BitPay and PayPal

#74

Post by zanny »

aianus wrote: post #59
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: Bitcoin traders were looking for an excuse to buy a lot of Bitcoin. Your eyes are deceiving you. The way it works is, they buy in order to jump the price. Then other people buy and continue the momentum upwards. Then, in a few days, they sell, and thus capitalize on everyone else's belief. This is how it's been for almost a year now. Ask yourself: Why use Bitcoin? What is the value proposition for consume…

> Why use Bitcoin? What is the value proposition for consumers apart from sending money to friends? - Buying things that people would be unwilling to sell to you with existing payment methods due to fraud risks. One legal example: iPhone purchases shipped to Nigeria. - Buying things electronically where the existing payment methods are too slow or expensive. For example, funding a stock trading account in seconds to…

Besides this, in person payments are much easier with a bitcoin app scanning a barcode from a screen that embeds the price and transaction info than swiping a card and entering numbers you need to remember, and one less thing to carry around.

Re: BitPay and PayPal

#75

Post by jarek »

javert wrote: post #65
jarek wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BitCoin is rocketing on this news it seems: For values of "rocketing" approaching "down 6% on the week, 13% on the month"

Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of the phrase "on this news." Perhaps you do understand, but it makes you feel good to say something nasty about bitcoin. And that feeling is more important to you than honest discussion.

Is context undesirable in honest discussions about Bitcoin then?

Re: BitPay and PayPal

#76

Post by jarek »

aianus wrote: post #61
jarek wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people who sell you food believe in FDIC

Slightly snarky but true retort: Soylent takes Bitcoin.

Cool, that only leaves people who provide supplies to Soylent, people who ship the Soylent to you, and your water utility :)

Re: BitPay and PayPal

#77

Post by joshuaxls »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #31
joshuaxls wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of bitcoin is that you don't need FDIC protection. You need FDIC protection with a bank because the bank isn't required to hold enough reserve to cover its deposits. If there's a run on the bank, and everyone wants to pull their deposits out, and the bank is insolvent, then the government guarantees to protect consumers by printing more money (inflation) to fulfill the bank's reserve requirements. With bitc…

I don't get it. A 'bitcoin bank' may have exactly the same liquidity issues, if they reinvest deposits like commercial banks do.

Yes, you're right. The point is, with bitcoin, there's really no need for banks.

It's easier (and safer) for me to hold a million dollars in bitcoin than a million dollars in cash. If I had a million dollars in cash, I'd be constantly worried that someone will find it and steal it. Hence the need for a bank. I feel much more capable hiding a private key, which is just information, than I do hiding 10,000 pieces of paper, which is physical.

Re: BitPay and PayPal

#78

Post by sillysaurus3 »

joshuaxls wrote: post #72
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're okay with someone being able to hold a gun to your head and demand your 24-word passphrase? That's why you need a bank with FDIC protection, even with Bitcoin.

You don’t understand what the FDIC is for. It’s not there to protect your deposits from being stolen by robbers. It exists to ensure consumers that banks are guaranteed to be solvent while they practice fractional reserve banking. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Deposit_Insurance_Corpo... If someone holds a gun to my head, I would give them my passphrase. I’d also go into my bank and wire my money into thei…

The point of FDIC isn't to defend against robbers. It's to enable you to safely store money. You cannot do this with bitcoin. You can do this with USD.

Most people don't walk around with their life savings on them. That is exactly what you're doing by storing your life savings in your brainwallet. Hence, the need for banks.

Bitcoin mixers also make it an attractive avenue for robbers. No one can demand you wire them money without getting caught. But they can demand you give them your passphrase and then make your money disappear in an untraceable way.

Re: BitPay and PayPal

#79

Post by jarek »

aianus wrote: post #59
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: Bitcoin traders were looking for an excuse to buy a lot of Bitcoin. Your eyes are deceiving you. The way it works is, they buy in order to jump the price. Then other people buy and continue the momentum upwards. Then, in a few days, they sell, and thus capitalize on everyone else's belief. This is how it's been for almost a year now. Ask yourself: Why use Bitcoin? What is the value proposition for consume…

> Why use Bitcoin? What is the value proposition for consumers apart from sending money to friends? - Buying things that people would be unwilling to sell to you with existing payment methods due to fraud risks. One legal example: iPhone purchases shipped to Nigeria. - Buying things electronically where the existing payment methods are too slow or expensive. For example, funding a stock trading account in seconds to…

That's a nice list of things most consumers won't be doing. That's not to say there's no value for people who do need it, but it does not suggest Bitcoin will become hugely valuable like Visa.

> - Buying things that people would be unwilling to sell to you with existing payment methods due to fraud risks. One legal example: iPhone purchases shipped to Nigeria.

Small global market share for legal uses.

> - Buying things electronically where the existing payment methods are too slow or expensive. For example, funding a stock trading account in seconds to an hour instead of 1-2 days or funding an online gambling account (legal for most non-US residents but slow and expensive with credit cards).

Most non-US residents can do bank transfers as fast as Bitcoin or will be able to Real Soon Now.

> - Buying an expensive item from a trusted merchant at a discount commensurate with the reduced transaction cost and zero chargeback risk.

So like 5%? Fringe, people who really care about a discount will buy something cheaper or haggle.

> - Paying for contractors or crowd-sourcing efforts in any country in the world with ease.

Fringe for consumer market share.

Re: BitPay and PayPal

#80

Post by xorcist »

notahacker wrote: post #45
joshuaxls wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been a bear market for bitcoin for months—many of the bears have been rooted out. It's not a conspiracy that bulls are coming in and pushing the price up. It's expected. Not every bull will close their position immediately. That's too simple of a view of how markets work. There is massive value in bitcoin. Payments, asset tracking, international remittances, etc. Take just one of those markets, and just one…

Bitcoin doesn't render Western Union obsolete until the day remote Burkinabe villages can walk to their local store and pick up the US-resident cousin's salary earned in CFA Franc banknotes. A highly volatile intermediary currency is hardly an advantage there.

That's completely true, but it's also true that if that day comes and Bitcoin is so entreched in the global marketplace so you can exchange it in Burkinabe villages, then it will be worth 100x today's price (especially when taking bubble effects into consideration). For some people in some situations that can be a rational bet to make.
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