Live data from Hacker News

The Unexotic Underclass

miter.mit.edu

71–80 of 309 posts

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#71
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assume that poor people are poor because they lack the savvy to be born into the upper middle class. That's a common misconception. Poor people are actually poor because they don't have any money. The easiest way to make money is not by tricking the poor, but by tricking the rich (they're the ones who have most of it, after all). Unfortunately, that same money allows even the dumbest rich people to aggressively…

> no one gives fuck all about the poor. That's blatantly untrue. People care. Ask yourself; how many of your friends "don't give fuck all about the poor"? I find it hard to believe that a majority of people would not wish a better life on poor people. But solving their problems is intimidating, difficult, and probably unprofitable. If the true problem is that poor people are poor because they don't have any money, th…

> how many of your friends "don't give fuck all about the poor"?

Almost all of my friends. And I'm from Amsterdam, the Netherlands, generally considered a pretty open-minded, progressive, tolerant and caring place. My friends are educated, middle-class. They're caring and generous to friends and family and have disposable income.

But they're extremely hesitant to something even like Kiva - a charity which allows you to lend money to business projects, and actually get your money back. I've lent thousands and got all of it back and relent it over and over again. Worst case is you miss out on $0.10 a month in interest while putting $100 to work charitably, infinitely, in a way that can't in any way be described a handout, as going to corrupt governors, as creating a relationship of dependence or be used to buy drugs.

But they really don't give a fuck. Trust me. May not be the case for everyone, buy my very generous friends are only generous to the people they know and love. Outside of that, they don't give a shit.

> That's blatantly untrue.

I disagree. The numbers are clear. About 5 thousand people die each day from preventable causes, such as a lack of clean drinking water. That's 9/11 every single day, completely preventable, mostly children.

On that statistic, here's a quote

> It is estimated that it would cost about US$ 23 billion per year to achieve the international development target of halving the percentage of people unserved with improved water sources globally (currently at 18%) and improved sanitation services (currently at 40%) by the year 2015. But governments presently spend US$ 16 billion a year in building new infrastructure. The additional US$ 7 billion a year needed to supply good water and sanitation to some who lack it is less than one tenth of what Europe spends on alcoholic drinks each year, about the same as Europe spends on ice cream and half of what the United States spends each year on pet food. Compared to what governments expend on military weapons, the cost of providing people with the means to improve their health is small.

Yes, one country spends twice as much on our pets than is necessary to spend to worldwide solve one of the biggest tragedies the world knows, that kids die each day from entirely preventable trivial issues like diarrhea. That's why the whole ice bucket challenge rubbed some people the wrong way, because it was one big tragic joke that was hard to criticize because at the end of the day, it did raise money that wouldn't otherwise be raised.

These quick notes are but the tip of the iceberg. There's a lot of data and we can do a lot more with very little, but people don't care, and don't seem to care enough to know or consider to change their mind, either.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#72
post #32
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that it's easier to make money scamming poor people. It's just easier to make money scamming people period. Rich people and poor people tend to fall for the exact same scams. The Vast majority of VC's are really running get quick scams to separate people / institutions with money from it. And if you dig into it so is much of the banking sector. EX: Morgage backed security's are really AAA. See savings and lo…

Budweiser is swill that passes for beer in the USA, because it is cheaper than what most of the world recognizes as beer -- until savvy people made microbrews popular in USA, and they are not in grocery stores.

You're being downvoted because America produces plenty of fine beer domestically, not just microbrews but major brands like Samuel Adams as well.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#73
post #64
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be impossible for a startup to work with the government in processing Veterns claims, for example. This is changing" http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/08/11... > MOOCs? Don't make me laugh. Most of these people wouldn't want to take one, they are not interested in an Education. They can barely fit in their current paycheck to paycheck lifestyle into their current schedule. That's an ob…

Studying using MOOC requires level of self-motivation that most people - both poor and rich - simply lack. Realistically speaking most MOOC do not add much value on top of a book you can get for free from any public library or buy for $30 on Amazon. Every time new medium is created people think that it will revolutionize education but the last time it was true was when printing press was invented. Radio lectures, TV,…

I think they require time. I started a Coursera machine learning course, then had a busy couple of weeks, where I couldn't do it. Got another week on, then another busy week. Makes learning a lot more difficult;t if you only get small fragments of time to focus on it.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#74
post #29

I can sum this up so very simply. The way to make the most money is to get as close to money as possible. Hence why finance is such a lucrative career. We are seeing the obvious flaws of capitalism now that capital is no longer tied to low skill labor for manufacturing. Want to make a ton of money 1 year from today and have good credit? Spend your days with an MLS subscription finding under-priced homes to flip in a…

Where I live, many landlords prefer tenants who are on welfare. The state pays their rent, so it's practically guaranteed. So I think single mothers might be a lucrative market. Especially if you can get the foot into the door for some government contract.

Another data point: I think Warren Buffet got rich with Coca Cola and chocolate bars? That's basically selling crap to the poor.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#75
post #8

>entrepreneurs have stopped chasing and solving Big Problems What is strange to me is that people believe entrepreneurs ever solved "Big Problems". Who in history falls into this class? Thomas Edison? Alexander Graham Bell? Henry Ford? Guglielmo Marconi? Nonsense, I say. These men didn't solve the "big problems" of their era -- they didn't attack issues that were popular in the public consciousness. They were really…

We did need cars - the problem of horseshit in cities was becoming unmanageable. But the rest of your point is well taken.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#76
I would really love to cater to the unexotic underclass, but how? I mean he goes on and on about how much opportunity there is, but I don't see it.

I know how to get 500 white liberal suburbanite young males to pay me $10 per month. They have the money and they love to spend it on tech and gadgetry that makes their lives even more comfortable. But single house mothers? Poor Romanians? How would I even get them to pay me half a cent.

In my mind, all these people really want and need is money, they are a receivers market, not a spenders market. I imagine them needing to spend money on food, education, housing and entertainment. All incredibly tough nuts to crack. If you even succeed at coming up with something those people want to spend money on, you're directly competing with the poor people dominators like Coca Cola.

The IT startup scene we're in is just a kids playground, do we really believe someone like Mark Zuckerberg could survive in the business of making money off poor people (directly)?

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#77
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That flippancy cuts both ways. The solution to the western diet is right there around the edges of the supermarket, and probably most people by now realize it's there, but they keep buying the flavor-enhanced processed grains because they taste good and are addicting. There is no red tape from people solving this problem for themselves, and that problem (#4 from pi) is about 10000 times greater than whatever problems…

But how do people know to go to the edge of the supermarket when the government has been telling them, and schools have been teaching them go to the middle? This is the food pyramid the government was pushing from 1992-2005. You should have 6-11 servings of bread, rice, pasta, and cereal a day! It was red tape and ignorance that pushed people to the middle of the market. http://i.imgur.com/QtDfDAl.jpg

Obese Americans are not obese because they eat too much pasta and bread, but because they eat thousands of extra calories in the form of raw sugar and fat.

A 330 ml can of cola is about 140 calories. A "Big Gulp" with 15% ice is about 360 calories.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#78
> too many brains and dollars have been shoveled into resolving what I call ‘anti-problems’ – interests usually centered about food or fashion or ‘social’or gaming

A few things come to mind when I hear people say things like this:

1. This type of complaint usually indicates observer bias. People don't read about, or share, news about boring industries. Go look at the last 25 investments on https://twitter.com/VCdelta and see how many are truly "anti-problems."

2. People who look down their nose at entrepreneurs who don't pursue "Big Problems" probably don't realize how hard the "Small Problems" actually are.

3. If you think smart people are missing out by not pursuing some massive task, like helping veterans, then I have good news for you: that means you believe there is an opportunity for someone to improve society and make a lot of money in the process. Go invest your time and/or money, improve the world, and reap the rewards. If you don't know how to fix the problem then maybe things aren't as simple as people choosing not to make the world better. If you know how to fix these issues, but you don't know how to make money doing so, then you are really just saying that investors should instead be philanthropists. If you don't think you're smart enough/strong enough to solve these problems then maybe you shouldn't be telling others you know what is best.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#79
post #73
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Studying using MOOC requires level of self-motivation that most people - both poor and rich - simply lack. Realistically speaking most MOOC do not add much value on top of a book you can get for free from any public library or buy for $30 on Amazon. Every time new medium is created people think that it will revolutionize education but the last time it was true was when printing press was invented. Radio lectures, TV,…

I think they require time. I started a Coursera machine learning course, then had a busy couple of weeks, where I couldn't do it. Got another week on, then another busy week. Makes learning a lot more difficult;t if you only get small fragments of time to focus on it.

Agree, not reading HN can give some extra time.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#80

Let's take a look at the real problems facing America and the rest of the developed world: 1. Mismanaged IT in critical infrastructure. 2. Misallocated funds in programs helping the destitute. 3. Cyclical loops of depression-lack of opportunity-lack of skill building. 4. Health disorders on a massive scale, like metabolic disorder, that can be solved with very simple things like diet and exercise. These places are no…

> that can be solved with very simple things like diet and exercise.

Fat people mostly know that they need to eat less and move more.

Fat people often lead unpleasant lives. They face stigma, mockery, discrimination. They have ill health and high costs.

Why don't they take these "simple" measures of eating less and moving more?

There's a lot of money in finding an answer.

Post reply on HN