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Sublime Text 3 Updated

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Re: Sublime Text 3 Updated

#71

I read up on this editor a little bit, but the thing that gets me is: what's wrong with emacs? I don't see anything this editor does that emacs can't do.

Just my 2 cents...

Sublime feels more lightweight and faster.

It has sensible defaults, and there is not much need to configure stuff.

It has a really "standard" interface (e.g. Tabs, Ctrl+PageUp/PageDn to switch between them, Ctrl+XCV for Clipboard, on Mac it uses the corresponding modifier keys instead). Emacs is rather idiosyncratic, to put it mildly.

It is prettier, and it's easier to install pretty themes (although not perfect yet), and while that may sound petty, it is important if you stare at it the whole day. I found you can make emacs look nice, but there was always some things that annoyed me.

Most importantly, antialiased fonts didn't work on some platforms (I'm sure you can make it work everywhere with some effort though). With sublime, you get native looking, readable fonts on every platform.

You have extensibility, but not so much that you can easily break the editor. The LISP environment in emacs is not beneficial for me, but rather a source of problems. Though, I would like a tiny bit more configurability in sublime - mainly the ability to place icons in the sidebar.

Last but not least, it has the killer feature of multiple selections (Ctrl+D). This allows you to do many cool editing maneuvers that you would use special emacs commands, key combos, regexes etc. (or in vi: movement combinations), but with just one simple key combo + cursor keys + shift, and most important, interactively. You don't have to think "I want to select this and that, but not that" before you press the buttons, you can "just do it".

Of course, emacs can do some things sublime can't. Extreme extensibility is one, but that's not important to me. More important is that it can run in a terminal (e.g. over ssh). It also has the ability to use different fonts and to embed images in its editor (useful for LaTeX).

It's not that there is anything emacs can't do that sublime can. Sublime is just more pleasant to use in my opinion.

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IMHO there is no justification nowadays for most apps to not work instantaneously, given how fast computers are. If you have to initialize stuff, do it at install time, not at startup time. I want to click the button and have the gui immediately there. Interestingly, emacs pioneered this. IIRC, it has a function to dump its memory to disc, and to just load the memory image at startup.

Re: Sublime Text 3 Updated

#72

I don't really understand why these new releases are called 'dev' builds, and there isn't an official non-dev ST3 build yet. Are most people using ST3 anyway, despite the releases being labelled dev builds? Are they in fact pretty stable? Are most widely used plugins updated for ST3 (and maybe no longer supported for ST2?) Should I just go ahead and switch ST3 "dev"? All multiple years of 'dev' releases gets you is c…

There are actually non-dev builds of ST3, and those are somewhat stable and what most people use.

Dev builds:

http://www.sublimetext.com/3dev

'Stable' builds

http://www.sublimetext.com/3

Re: Sublime Text 3 Updated

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I subscribe to the idea that ST is "dead". The base editor is stable enough for day to day use ("dev" build be damned) and all the extra functionality (i.e. new features) is provided by plugins anyways. ST could never see another update and would remain a competitive editor for daily use due to its plugin ecosystem.

I wouldn't consider ST3 to be stable or usable under Linux since it just wrecks file permissions.

I'm using the 3059 build and it doesn't change permissions of pre-existing files. And this build is supposed to solve that for the dev builds (I have to check it).

Re: Sublime Text 3 Updated

#74

I read up on this editor a little bit, but the thing that gets me is: what's wrong with emacs? I don't see anything this editor does that emacs can't do.

To understand what's wrong with emacs pretend that you are a new user that doesn't know emacs, but is familiar with editors in browsers, and other places ordinary people use.

When you start to use emacs everything will be wrong, the few shortcuts you know such as ctrl-c/v/x/z/f will do strange things, scrolling won't move text smoothly like other programs but will jump several lines always keeping first line exactly aligned, so you feel lost all the time. When you select something and scroll emacs will destroy the selection and keep cursor in viewport (i am still not sure if this is a feature, or just a glaring bug that no one cares to fix).

Now you try sublime and it is beautiful! It comes with beautiful theme, beautiful chrome-like tabs (they even scroll!), fantastic smooth scrolling, pretty minimap that helps you see whole document at once, built in fuzzy search, and easily configurable plugins.

Why would you even try learning emacs where you constantly feel lost, instead of sublime which makes you feel powerful?

> I don't see anything this editor does that emacs can't do.

in short it's not only important to do something, but do it with style;)

Re: Sublime Text 3 Updated

#75

I don't really understand why these new releases are called 'dev' builds, and there isn't an official non-dev ST3 build yet. Are most people using ST3 anyway, despite the releases being labelled dev builds? Are they in fact pretty stable? Are most widely used plugins updated for ST3 (and maybe no longer supported for ST2?) Should I just go ahead and switch ST3 "dev"? All multiple years of 'dev' releases gets you is c…

I've been using ST3 for some time off and on, and never had any issue. I just download it from http://www.sublimetext.com/3

Re: Sublime Text 3 Updated

#76

I love this editor and it makes me sad to see how the project is stalled. In 2002 the investors behind Blender launched the "Free Blender" campaign. They asked for 100,000 EUR as a one-time fee for open sourcing it. At the time the project was dying as a proprietary product. The investors got the money and today Blender is a healthy open source project. I would love to see something similar with Sublime Text. The aut…

I'd like to see Jon sign up for something like Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/

As near as I can tell, they would qualify as a creator, the signup process is fast and easy, and with Sublime's massive user community, it would probably give them a nice little revenue stream on the side. Patreon seems like a good way to extract money on a regular basis from people who actively want to give it to you. One of the webcomics I follow daily, Questionable Content, is currently pulling down $9,000+/month from Patreon support alone: http://www.patreon.com/jephjacques (HUGE as webcomic revenue usually goes).

I'd pledge like $10/month just to get regular monthly software updates. Hell, I'd pay $5/month just for regular monthly blog updates on he's been working on, and there'd be absolutely zero downside to his writing a blog update once a month.

Re: Sublime Text 3 Updated

#77
post #74

I read up on this editor a little bit, but the thing that gets me is: what's wrong with emacs? I don't see anything this editor does that emacs can't do.

To understand what's wrong with emacs pretend that you are a new user that doesn't know emacs, but is familiar with editors in browsers, and other places ordinary people use. When you start to use emacs everything will be wrong, the few shortcuts you know such as ctrl-c/v/x/z/f will do strange things, scrolling won't move text smoothly like other programs but will jump several lines always keeping first line exactly…

Ok, as I am an emacs user, I somewhat see your point. But the counterpoint is that most hackers spend a good part of their day on text editors and ide's, so it's not unreasonable to spend some time learning it for greater productivity gains later. Yes, there is a greater learning curve with emacs, but it seems to be more extensible than any other editors out there. The ctrl-c/v/x/z/f shortcuts can easily be remapped, the minimap module is available, as well as multiple cursors. That's the great thign about emacs, it can be extended to do just about anything.

It reminds me of a quote from the great Marvin Minsky: “A computer is like a violin. You can imagine a novice trying first a phonograph and then a violin. The latter, he says, sounds terrible. That is the argument we have heard from our humanists and most of our computer scientists. Computer programs are good, they say, for particular purposes, but they aren’t flexible. Neither is a violin, or a typewriter, until you learn how to use it.”

Re: Sublime Text 3 Updated

#78
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To understand what's wrong with emacs pretend that you are a new user that doesn't know emacs, but is familiar with editors in browsers, and other places ordinary people use. When you start to use emacs everything will be wrong, the few shortcuts you know such as ctrl-c/v/x/z/f will do strange things, scrolling won't move text smoothly like other programs but will jump several lines always keeping first line exactly…

Ok, as I am an emacs user, I somewhat see your point. But the counterpoint is that most hackers spend a good part of their day on text editors and ide's, so it's not unreasonable to spend some time learning it for greater productivity gains later. Yes, there is a greater learning curve with emacs, but it seems to be more extensible than any other editors out there. The ctrl-c/v/x/z/f shortcuts can easily be remapped,…

I agree that extensibility is a great thing, that's why i spent some time learning emacs. But unfortunately no amount of elisp could fix the bugs in core: jumpy scrolling, and keeping cursor always on screen. And more importantly after some time it turned out that i used all that extensibility mostly to get on par with other editors, so to me emacs felt more like a construction kit for a violin rather than an actual violin.

Hopefully new generation of browser based editors like cloud9 or atom will provide extenibility similar to emacs, but will start from more sensible place.

Re: Sublime Text 3 Updated

#79
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not what it can't do or how many things more Emacs can do, it's how each goes about them. Not being tied into a BS-pseudo-Lisp runtime is an essential for me. And not having been designed with 1990 display technology in mind too.

I still don't get it. What's wrong with using a lisp as the underlying architecture? This should be an advantage.

Not for me.

1) I don't consider Lisp great for text work.

2) I don't consider Emacs Lisp a great Lisp either.

3) Even more fundamentaly, I don't think the kind of hooks Emacs offers for extensibility, with the modes etc, are to my liking, especially in how the interoporate with the visual representation.

4) And I'd rather, personally, use Python for my plugins.

Re: Sublime Text 3 Updated

#80
post #65
post #38

People talk about the "bus factor", and how OSS would have been a better option. But far more often I've been beaten from the: 1) "Yeah, core devs moved on now, and nobody cares to maintain this OSS software". 2) "Yeah, core devs decided to rewrite everything from scratch and change APIs and ABIs".

Because that doesn't happen outside of the OSS world?

Don't know, haven't seen it as often.

Money and existing customers depending on you and you depending on them provides a good motive to not do (1) and to avoid (2).

Also a lot of no-OSS software, especially of the desktop variety, is unpolished and un-finished, usually a moving target, so (1 -- the owners moving on and nobody picking it up) is more damaging for its user compared to some proprietary software being abandoned which he can still use for ages as is.

For example Microsoft is legendary for avoiding (2) at almost all costs, to the point were 20 year old Windows 98 programs still run as is on a modern OS. Heck, people still use VB6 which was superceded like 13 years ago... If you pick a software with a good following, chances are they will continue to support it.

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