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Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

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Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#71

Post by david_b »

josefresco wrote: post #64
codeshaman wrote: post #27

Just back from Boom Festival in Portugal, where personal drug use is decriminalized. There was almost no police/security at the gates or inside the festival, although selling drugs was not tolerated (eg. people selling on the festival grounds were kindly asked to leave). There were 42.000 people from 152 countries and most of them used some kind of substance or plant there (marijuana being the most abundantly and ope…

Running a a drug friendly "festival" and a state (as in the United States) are two completely different realities. I'm welcome your anecdotal evidence but don't find it at all relevant to the topic of how a state should handle the legal and health consequences of heroin abuse. A bunch of party-goers doing recreational drugs couldn't be farther from the realities of heroin addiction in a rural population.

Your comment is slightly off-the-mark as his comment wasn't merely about a festival, but also about his opinion on Portugals drug policy. As your comment implies that you aren't familiar with said policy, you may wish to recap Portugals efforts in drug decriminalization:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-d...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

While it is apparently hard to say how effective these efforts were, it is quite easy to see that the neo-prohibitionists worst nightsmares have yet to happene in Portugal.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#72

Post by tych0 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #69
Xylakant wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> although none are as destructive as alcohol. > Really? Are you really saying that heroin, which is one of the most addictive drugs in the world, is not as destructive as alcohol? While there are more alcoholics than horse heads, that's because there's more people that drink alcohol as a whole. Are there any studies for the ratio of abusers/users for heroin and alcohol? Your parent poster is right here. Heroin (and…

But all those side effects are the direct result of using morphine, right? Splitting hairs to say 'so morphine is safe'. It like 'this knife is safe; its just the cuts that hurt you'. Still, alcohol is more destructive overall since so many more people abuse it.

No, those are side effects of using morphine (heroin) that you got from a shady drug dealer network, instead of something more pure from a regulated corner store.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#73

Post by smcl »

josefresco wrote: post #64
codeshaman wrote: post #27

Just back from Boom Festival in Portugal, where personal drug use is decriminalized. There was almost no police/security at the gates or inside the festival, although selling drugs was not tolerated (eg. people selling on the festival grounds were kindly asked to leave). There were 42.000 people from 152 countries and most of them used some kind of substance or plant there (marijuana being the most abundantly and ope…

Running a a drug friendly "festival" and a state (as in the United States) are two completely different realities. I'm welcome your anecdotal evidence but don't find it at all relevant to the topic of how a state should handle the legal and health consequences of heroin abuse. A bunch of party-goers doing recreational drugs couldn't be farther from the realities of heroin addiction in a rural population.

Remember that this is not particular to that festival in Portugal, but to the entirety of Portugal

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#75

Post by krschultz »

johnchristopher wrote: post #8
kynikos wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a resident and commnications director/volunteer for a couple of campaigns, I've learned a Republican in Vermont is almost always like a Democrat in any other state.

Living in Europe, never having set a foot in the US, I take the bait: what is a Democrat like in Vermont then ?

Probably like a liberal in Europe, as opposed to most Democrats that are more conservative than most European liberals. As a single example, Vermont is going down the road of actually enacting a single payer healthcare system at the state level, which is politically impossible nationally.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#76

Post by clarkmoody »

mwfunk wrote: post #14
praneshp wrote: post #6

I really wish it wasn't called "War on drugs". One of the things I dislike about America, as an outsider, is their tendency to call everything "War on X", which essentially makes everything us vs them.

I agree about disliking the terminology, although (as far as I know) the phrasing dates back to Lyndon Johnson's "War on Poverty" initiative in 1964. The aspiration that was being reflected there was that the US government could apply the same fervor, resources, and ingenuity to uplifting the poor that it had applied to WW1, WW2, and was then still applying to the Cold War. Because of that, I always felt like the phr…

While we're at it, I would love to see the "scandal-gate" terminology disappear as well.

According to Wikipedia[1], the "war on crime" was used by Hoover in the '30s.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_as_metaphor

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#77

Post by clarkmoody »

tim333 wrote: post #49

>“This is an experiment,” Shumlin says. “And we’re not going to really know the results for a while.” Good stuff. I really wish those in power would more often try a scientific/engineering approach to see what works rather than politicians shouting about war on whatever.

This is a fantastic argument for strong states' rights and less-overbearing / centralized policy from Washington.

Let the states be compared against one another and measure the results: if heroin abuse skyrockets in Vermont, then other states could avoid their policy mistakes. If something works incredibly well in a couple states, then it would be appropriate to implement broad, federal rules codifying the success in those states for the whole union.

As it stands, the federal government piles an increasing amount of legislation and regulation down on the states, leaving less room for this type of innovation and experimentation.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#78

Post by clarkmoody »

blueking wrote: post #31

I wonder why the government needs to force everyone to hit a collective rock bottom before considering a new strategy. Throwing everyone involved in jail was a bad idea from day 1. What they need to do is manufacture and sell the drugs at cost to registered addicts. This way you destroy the business of the drug cartels and you insure your citizens are at least using pure drugs. Regardless of the legality of the use o…

> Prioritizing law enforcement before public safety is a revealing and meaningful sign of incompetence or even corruption.

Government is fundamentally better at policing and enforcing than it is at nurturing. It is not a sign of corruption, but merely a trait inherent to all government.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#79

Post by ollysb »

JonLim wrote: post #57
codeshaman wrote: post #27

Just back from Boom Festival in Portugal, where personal drug use is decriminalized. There was almost no police/security at the gates or inside the festival, although selling drugs was not tolerated (eg. people selling on the festival grounds were kindly asked to leave). There were 42.000 people from 152 countries and most of them used some kind of substance or plant there (marijuana being the most abundantly and ope…

I think they had a drug testing booth in Barcelona when I was there last summer for Sónar, and there was a massive line up of people. Not sure what Spain's outlook on drug use is, but it was rather refreshing to see that level of education and emphasis on safety compared to what I've seen in festivals in Toronto and NYC.

From my experience in Granada it's pretty relaxed. I recall going to a Granada football game(they're in the top division), with a policeman standing on the steps next to my seat there was some guys smoking some joints right in front of us. They may as well have been drinking a beer for all the attention he was giving them.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#80

Post by DanHulton »

josefresco wrote: post #64
codeshaman wrote: post #27

Just back from Boom Festival in Portugal, where personal drug use is decriminalized. There was almost no police/security at the gates or inside the festival, although selling drugs was not tolerated (eg. people selling on the festival grounds were kindly asked to leave). There were 42.000 people from 152 countries and most of them used some kind of substance or plant there (marijuana being the most abundantly and ope…

Running a a drug friendly "festival" and a state (as in the United States) are two completely different realities. I'm welcome your anecdotal evidence but don't find it at all relevant to the topic of how a state should handle the legal and health consequences of heroin abuse. A bunch of party-goers doing recreational drugs couldn't be farther from the realities of heroin addiction in a rural population.

You do realize that a great deal of the problems associated with heroin addiction come from the very fact that it is illegal? The crime, the marginalization from society, the lack of access to health care or rehabilitation clinics, these things all make the addiction far, far worse than if we treated this whole thing a little saner and more compassionately.
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