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Getting rid of burnout permanently

kentnguyen.com

71–80 of 141 posts

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#71

Um... Not work so hard? I'm not a programmer, so I'm viewing the stuff on hacker news from outside the bubble, so to speak. And from here, y'all look crazy. To the average person, spending extra hours at work with no overtime pay is absurd, but you all discuss it like it's no big deal. Your industry needs a huge cultural overhaul. People must be trained not to accept burnout as normal.

This misses the point of the article.

The author's premise is that you burnout because you do not spend time on the things that truly fulfill you, whatever those may be. It is very possible, and maybe even probable, that people who do not "work so hard" can still experience burn out because they do not use their free time to do the things that fulfill them.

If you are working so hard that you simply cannot find any time to fit in fulfilling activities, then yes, you should not work so hard.

If you are being taken advantage of and pressured into working too hard without adequate compensation, then you should find a better job.

However, "not work so hard" is not an answer to the problem as outlined by the author and seems more like a response to the headline than to the article itself.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#72
I was writing code for this company. Had burnout. Couldn't concentrate. Like something was broken in my head. Tried. Couldn't. Stopped trying. Then tried some more. Then floated in a haze between trying and not-trying. Started having really bad dreams. Would wake up, run down the road freaked out. Hallucinating.

Quit my job of course. I'm not stupid.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#73

Um... Not work so hard? I'm not a programmer, so I'm viewing the stuff on hacker news from outside the bubble, so to speak. And from here, y'all look crazy. To the average person, spending extra hours at work with no overtime pay is absurd, but you all discuss it like it's no big deal. Your industry needs a huge cultural overhaul. People must be trained not to accept burnout as normal.

I'm also coming from outside the bubble. From a different viewpoint, though, programmers aren't so bad about this. Try hanging out with some medical doctors and nurses, instead. I might think my 60 hour weeks are bad, but i just can't complain about it to my wife when she gets home from her 80 hour weeks. Burnout is a completely accepted part of nursing, and many nurses take it into account in career planning. Not sa…

I think it's a bit apples to oranges. Programming is for the most part sitting quietly in front of a computer screen for hours each day. At face value it looks easier, but it's actually a lot more brain-numbing. If I'm honest with myself, I think I can do it for 4 hours a day before my brain starts to slowly shutdown. I've been working for only a couple years and I'm seriously concerned about my future in the industry.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what context do you teach coding? I thoroughly enjoyed teaching while a TA in college, and have periodically thought I'd enjoy doing it again, but I don't have the inclination to go back for further degrees, nor deal with academia.

I've been teaching with Girl Develop It. If you have a chapter in your area, I highly recommend it! Both men and women can attend/teach, although its main goal is to promote more women in tech.

Rails Girls is also a great opportunity.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#75

Fantastic Article. Three weeks ago I hit absolute rock bottom with exhaustion from working hard for the last 2 years (I worked out I've been working 70-80 hour weeks since Dev 2010 with 8 days off in 4 years). I resolved to get my life sorted out, I cut back work hours drastically, started riding my bike more and went to the Doctors to get help with sleeping tablets and pain management (the last 3 months I've been wa…

So what is responsible for this miraculous change? Simply working fewer hours?

Sorry to hear about your partner, that is horrible. Best of luck.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#76

It's odd but sex is not mentioned even once as a legitimate release.

It's common sense between many cultures and philosophies that sex drains energy, at least for males.

Another datapoint of common-sense being bullshit.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#77

Some companies see their employees as orange trees that they need to keep healthy year after year. Some companies see their employees as oranges they need to squeeze as much as possible.

Unfortunately, very few people acknowledge what it really takes to keep the "trees" healthy, even if they think they do. A great deal of "progressive" companies assume that a break room with an Xbox 360 and a soda fountain should automatically translate into astronomical employee morale, despite regular overworking and underpaying.

How often does a company see its employees as equals? How often does a company try to ensure that the employee's demands and the company's demands are equitable? Most of them mask their blatant anti-employee bias in moralistic language to try to shame people out of asking questions: as one example, if you leave for another opportunity whilst involved in a project, you're considered "disloyal" or "unstable" and guilted, even though a company would shave off a unit in a heartbeat if it meant a major change in their financial prospects.

Even companies that claim they understand career progression, work-life balance, etc. often have these problems lurking underneath the glitzy exterior. I say this and people will think, "Yeah, that sucks, but not my workplace!" The reality is yes, your workplace probably has this same issue too. Just think about it for a while.

We need to start thinking of employment as a mutually beneficial exchange between equals with equally applicable moral rules. Why should the company keep 90%+ of the revenue an employee generates? Would that fly if it were a partnership deal between corporations? Surely the services of an employer are worth something, but are they really worth that much? The only reason employers can take that much is because employees don't believe they can claim any portion of that revenue without an employer, and they have to take the paltry 2% or they won't be able to get anything, which is usually false if the employee has a marketable skill.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#78
post #71

Um... Not work so hard? I'm not a programmer, so I'm viewing the stuff on hacker news from outside the bubble, so to speak. And from here, y'all look crazy. To the average person, spending extra hours at work with no overtime pay is absurd, but you all discuss it like it's no big deal. Your industry needs a huge cultural overhaul. People must be trained not to accept burnout as normal.

This misses the point of the article. The author's premise is that you burnout because you do not spend time on the things that truly fulfill you, whatever those may be. It is very possible, and maybe even probable, that people who do not "work so hard" can still experience burn out because they do not use their free time to do the things that fulfill them. If you are working so hard that you simply cannot find any t…

I can corroborate this. My last job was not very intense[0], but I still experienced burnout symptoms after a few months. After a while, I just hated going to work. I got a new job, and I was suddenly energized. I started staying late to work on things not because they were past due, but because I was interested in them. I found a sense of accomplishment and self-fulfillment in doing them.

[0] Typical 8-5, fairly laid-back atmosphere, significant amount of freedom.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#79

Um... Not work so hard? I'm not a programmer, so I'm viewing the stuff on hacker news from outside the bubble, so to speak. And from here, y'all look crazy. To the average person, spending extra hours at work with no overtime pay is absurd, but you all discuss it like it's no big deal. Your industry needs a huge cultural overhaul. People must be trained not to accept burnout as normal.

> I'm not a programmer and > Your industry needs a huge cultural overhaul aka, "I don't have your perspective but let me tell you why you're all wrong"

I am a programmer. My industry does need a huge cultural overhaul.

But I also know that my co-workers and I have shared personality traits that make such an overhaul extremely unlikely, especially given the shared personality traits of those whom we typically serve.

The traditional manner in which workers overhaul their own industry is via cartelization and collective action. And to us, that just seems like trading in kings and getting back a tsar. We think the cartel enforcer would immediately turn on us, because we all know both game theory and history, and it totally would.

But we're still stuck at that Nash equilibrium, where all of us get a little bit screwed, because any attempt to get less screwed would make you more screwed.

I'm not going to propose a solution here. I'm just saying that it should be readily apparent to anyone, not just an insider, that we need to seek a new equilibrium.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not a programmer and > Your industry needs a huge cultural overhaul aka, "I don't have your perspective but let me tell you why you're all wrong"

I am a programmer. My industry does need a huge cultural overhaul. But I also know that my co-workers and I have shared personality traits that make such an overhaul extremely unlikely, especially given the shared personality traits of those whom we typically serve. The traditional manner in which workers overhaul their own industry is via cartelization and collective action. And to us, that just seems like trading i…

Not disagreeing with anything you said :-)

My underlying thinking in what I said is due to massive generalizations that are so common today. When people say, "the tech industry is sexist" I understand that what they're saying is rooted in fact with hard-evidence and examples, but and this is the key, by making these sweeping generalizations it discredits those who are actively making an effort to solve these sort of problems.

So then usually the response is, "well I didn't mean every one, just those that are the causing issue" to which I like to point out how in the push to be PC and equalize everything, they are not policing their own words in the same manner that they police other people's words, for if that was the case, they would say, "some groups and subcultures within the tech industry are sexist" Generally speaking, when I see someone use "all" "everyone" or lack a modifier like "some" or "subgroup" I try to point out the absurdity of it.

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