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Stop The JerkTech

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Re: Stop The JerkTech

#71

Post by jasonlotito »

jbackus wrote: post #67

> Don’t concert ticket re-sale sites like StubHub encourage and take a cut from scalping? Yes, and I’m not a big fan of them for that reason. If the demand for a band’s ticket is high, they’re the ones that should be making the mark-up, not some sleazy guy with 20 computers who bought 40 tickets the second they went on sale to turn around and flip them. But at least that guy has to bet his own money that he can resel…

The author isn't linking StubHub to these other startups, rather, they're saying "at least that guy has to bet his own money that he can resell a private commodity he bought."

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#72

Post by lotharbot »

onewaystreet wrote: post #49
lotharbot wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "you will likely see them work directly with restaurants and share the revenue" Why wait for the future? If some startup thinks that selling reservations at restaurant X is profitable, they should be partnering with restaurant X right now to sell their reservations. They should be sharing in the potential downside with the restaurant -- if they book reservations they don't sell, and the restaurant has to turn down…

Because it's very hard to get small businesses, especially restaurants, to signup for unproven new services. This is why you had companies like Groupon spending millions on hiring local sales people.

according to another comment in this thread, there are startups in New York that are doing it the way I suggested (ie, partnering with restaurants at the beginning).

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#73

Post by gizmo686 »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #32
wpietri wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scalpers do not create value. At a concert the value is being created by the performers, and it's not like scalpers create seats or make the show longer. They just shift value around to people with more money.

Scalpers do create value. After a complete scalping transaction: - the original ticket purchaser is happier with the cash received than with the ticket they had before - the final ticket purchaser is happier with the ticket than with the cash they paid - the scalper is happy with his/her profit - the promoter's/venue's revenue is unaffected So, three people are better off. Value has been created.

Your analysis is slightly off. In a world without scalpers, the original ticket purchaser would not exist, because he bought the ticket for the purpose of selling it. However, your general thought is good.

In a world without scalpers, person A and B both have a 50% of buying the ticket at price $X. However, the ticket is worth more to B than it is to A (in terms of real utility, not monetary value). There is real value created by increasing the chances of B getting the ticket. The most effective mechanism we have found to maximize the chances that B gets the ticket in this situation is market pricing, which is what scalpers enable.

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#74

Post by Mikeb85 »

The good news is that while markets can be irrational in the short run, eventually things that create no value ARE weeded out.

And the restaurant industry for one, while very competitive, is also a fairly tight-knit community (due to the rigours and stress involved in the business), and word gets around fast. I'm sure cities will also crack down on auctioning public parking spots, to the extent that it will be an unprofitable exercise.

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#75

Post by couchand »

mraison wrote: post #61
tyoma wrote: post #13

The restaurant issue I'm somewhat conflicted about -- I don't know enough about the business so some of my thoughts maybe impossible for various reasons. If people are willing to buy reservations, why not just charge more for the food until there is no waiting list? Or just charge for reservations (or at least those at preferred times) and keep the money for the restaurant? Whats the inherent reason that reservations…

> If people are willing to buy reservations, why not just charge more for the food until there is no waiting list? I don't really like the idea that restaurant owners should be forced to raise their prices just to avoid being screwed by clever startups. What if you just want to keep your prices affordable even though you have a lot of success? I guess you can always ask for an ID and check if it matches the reservati…

That restaurants very well might have to start doing this should be an indicator that this startup is making jerkware.

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#76

Post by NhanH »

metaphorm wrote: post #62
NhanH wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear: I agree with your point on focusing on creating value. And after I read your comment, I agree that none of the startups in the articles are truly creating that much value. However, is it that simple to qualify when you're creating value? If I had read the article before HN's comments, I'd have thought the startup is cool (admittedly trivial and silly, but we have a lot of those nowadays), rather tha…

"Assuming that rich people is richer because society decides that their time is more valuable, they can create more value in the same amount of times of some other poorer people." are you fucking kidding me? why would you assume that?

I believe that's a reasonable assumption for this discussion (that's not my personal opinion, btw). But trying to justify that statement will start a flame war and distract from the topic, so let me try to say that sentence in another way:

Parking spot is a commodity. And just like other commodity in life, everyone values it differently. What's wrong in letting people paying for what they think it's worth for? The rich will always have advantage in buying commodity, and that's a fundamental issue in our society, but that's an entirely separate problem to fix, and the solution isn't telling people to stop producing commodity.

In this specific case of parking lot, it's bad either way because a private company is skimming profit from public space.

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#77

Post by marcus_holmes »

metaphorm wrote: post #62
NhanH wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear: I agree with your point on focusing on creating value. And after I read your comment, I agree that none of the startups in the articles are truly creating that much value. However, is it that simple to qualify when you're creating value? If I had read the article before HN's comments, I'd have thought the startup is cool (admittedly trivial and silly, but we have a lot of those nowadays), rather tha…

"Assuming that rich people is richer because society decides that their time is more valuable, they can create more value in the same amount of times of some other poorer people." are you fucking kidding me? why would you assume that?

Economic theory. A rich person earns more money per hour than a poor person (by definition). Money is a representation of value (by definition). In Economics, value earned is at least proportional (if not equal) to value created. So a rich person creates more value in the same amount of time than a poor person. Their time is literally more valuable.

In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#78

Post by couchand »

chatmasta wrote: post #15
ar7hur wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is it's not your parking spot, but public property.

Possession is 9/10 of the law. ;) EDIT: Probably down voted because of length, but I'm pointing out that this is an opinion lots of people have, and there's a reason it exists as a truism. If you pass a law against apps like this, how could you possibly enforce it? The seller's car is already in the spot, and police can't get a real time notification that he's using the app. By the time they realize what happened (if…

You might look into the concept of a thought-terminating cliché [0].

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A...

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#79

Post by rahimnathwani »

gizmo686 wrote: post #73
rahimnathwani wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scalpers do create value. After a complete scalping transaction: - the original ticket purchaser is happier with the cash received than with the ticket they had before - the final ticket purchaser is happier with the ticket than with the cash they paid - the scalper is happy with his/her profit - the promoter's/venue's revenue is unaffected So, three people are better off. Value has been created.

Your analysis is slightly off. In a world without scalpers, the original ticket purchaser would not exist, because he bought the ticket for the purpose of selling it. However, your general thought is good. In a world without scalpers, person A and B both have a 50% of buying the ticket at price $X. However, the ticket is worth more to B than it is to A (in terms of real utility, not monetary value). There is real val…

I see your point. However, many times people buy tickets to a show because they intend to go, but then something comes up, or their financial situation changes, or demand outstrips supply to the extent that the open market price exceeds the value to them.

That's the situation I was imagining when I wrote my post.

My original post has as many comments as downvotes, which I take to mean it wasn't a useless post, but that people disagree that scalpers add value. The funny thing is, I would prefer a world without scalpers, and in which I had an equal chance to buy underpriced tickets. If I were rich, I would probably prefer the current situation, or one in which tickets were priced dynamically, like plane tickets are now.

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#80

Post by EdwardDiego »

bunkat wrote: post #5

Whenever I hear about these I always wonder what the people that found them are thinking. I mean, what type of person would you have to be to decide to try and screw over the restaurant industry (which already has historically low margins) just to make a buck? I can't even imagine how many fake reservations they would need to create to make that idea worthwhile for them. And what investors would give them money to do…

And what kind of customer wants to give a fake name to dine? The feeling of dishonesty aside, I can imagine it going hilariously wrong if automatically generated.

"Yes, my name is Eduardo ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException, it is a proud family name, we are far better than the scum of House Segmentation Fault".

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