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New York’s Shadow Transit

newyorker.com

71–80 of 132 posts

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#71

This is a great story. It's a look at how people really live in a modern city and the border between formal and informal commerce. One of the key research targets in modern sociology and economics and political science is the emergence of institutions like dollar vans. It's very difficult to get a public system to cover every route and part of the city that needs transit, but most city authorities are reluctant to li…

Paris has great public transport. This is the subway (metro) map: http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/12/56/aa/1256aa0...

The numbers are subways, the letters are trains. There are busses too, but I never use them. And there are rental bikes in the streets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A9lib%27

I don't think Paris needs shadow transit.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

since they have to if flagged down Do they abide by this rule 100%? How is it monitored or enforced?

If it's anything like where I live it's not necessarily monitored or enforced. If you accidentally tell the cabbie where you want to go before getting in they'll just drive off. If you're already in the cab when you tell them then they're not likely to tell you to get out.

Yep, a lot of times the driver will ask you where you are going before letting you jump in.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#73

This is a great story. It's a look at how people really live in a modern city and the border between formal and informal commerce. One of the key research targets in modern sociology and economics and political science is the emergence of institutions like dollar vans. It's very difficult to get a public system to cover every route and part of the city that needs transit, but most city authorities are reluctant to li…

Israel has always had 'Sherut' taxi vans. These usually follow regular bus routes and actually pot the bus route's number. The biggest use case is Saturdays, when public busses don't run, but it's not unknown for a 'sherut' van to arrive in some terminal trying to put together a route for any potential travelers sitting around or even to go along a long haul bus route 5 minutes ahead of the official bus and pick up passengers.

Different areas/routes have different conventions. Price is sometimes by negotiation, sometimes the bus fare and sometimes twice the bus fare.

Makes sense to the people who use it regularly but very hard to penetrate for a newcomer. Virtually impossible for tourists. Ironically, a lot of guide books tell tourists to use these.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#74

This is a great story. It's a look at how people really live in a modern city and the border between formal and informal commerce. One of the key research targets in modern sociology and economics and political science is the emergence of institutions like dollar vans. It's very difficult to get a public system to cover every route and part of the city that needs transit, but most city authorities are reluctant to li…

> I understand that in Los Angeles, where the busses are awful... This seems to be a common refrain, but it's also outdated. Both the bus and subway networks in LA are massively larger than in San Francisco (which, by the way, has the world's slowest bus fleet at 8.1 mph [1]). LA County is massively larger than San Francisco (including the equivalents of the entire Peninsula, Oakland, and Marin) and has sections of v…

NYC's bus fleet is slower than San Francisco's, with some routes netting 2-3 MPH.

Note that urban traffic speeds, net of stops, are often quite modest, and that "dwell times" and stop frequency have a profound impact.

Even BART, with its 80 MPH peak speeds, averages about 35 MPH for longer throughway routes. You can verify this roughly by comparing BART travel times with driving distances in Google Maps.

But cities with slow average transit speeds are also generally pretty dense. Remember, SF is 7 miles square, do even 8.1 MPH gets you from one end to the other in an hour (and that's pretty much a worst case).

Google Maps shows the SF Ferry Building to SF State (a cross-town trip) as 21 minutes by car (good luck with parking), or 39 minutes by transit.

Worse are trips between less-travelled areas. The Marina to SF Zoo is a 21 minute drive, but 1h2m by bus.

Driving from the Ferry Building to the de Young Museum in Golden Gate park is only 5.8 miles but would take 21 minutes -- that's 16.5 MPH, by car. Access to highways vs. surface streets makes a big difference.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#76
post #71

This is a great story. It's a look at how people really live in a modern city and the border between formal and informal commerce. One of the key research targets in modern sociology and economics and political science is the emergence of institutions like dollar vans. It's very difficult to get a public system to cover every route and part of the city that needs transit, but most city authorities are reluctant to li…

Paris has great public transport. This is the subway (metro) map: http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/12/56/aa/1256aa0... The numbers are subways, the letters are trains. There are busses too, but I never use them. And there are rental bikes in the streets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A9lib%27 I don't think Paris needs shadow transit.

> There are busses too, but I never use them.

Don't forget the trams above ground too (6 lines running, 4 more planned).

The official public transport organ has a (flash :() map which you can switch between rail (trains, subways and trams), day bus and night bus: http://www.ratp.fr/plan-interactif/carteidf.php

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#78
post #69

This is a great story. It's a look at how people really live in a modern city and the border between formal and informal commerce. One of the key research targets in modern sociology and economics and political science is the emergence of institutions like dollar vans. It's very difficult to get a public system to cover every route and part of the city that needs transit, but most city authorities are reluctant to li…

Minibus systems appear everywhere, especially in poorer developing countries with fast-growing cities. They tend to be inefficient by dint of the market equilibrium creating a single, vastly overserved "downtown hub". There are some projects to map them, for example: [0] http://lusakapublictransportmap.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/and...

I didn't know these existed until a coworker of mine told me he takes one to New Jersey every day.

Reminds me of the poda poda taxi system in Sierra Leone which has no official public transport and also the matatu's all over Rwanda and Kenya which are alternatives to the official public lines.

Interesting to see that in NYC they deck out the inside of the vans/buses with TVs and other things (to stay "undercover") while in other countries the matatus and poda podas are decorated on the exterior with all sorts of amazing paint jobs, graphics and slogans. Usually they are either inspirational, religious or in homage to a favorite premier league team.[1][2][3]

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=matatu+rwanda&tbm=isch&sa=X&... [2] https://www.google.com/search?q=poda+poda+freetown&tbm=isch&... [3] https://www.google.com/search?q=motor+bike+naorobi&tbm=isch&...

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#79
I've commented before on HN with this important cautionary tale from South Africa: In the late 1980's the apartheid government (which was taking very tentative steps towards reform) decided to cheaply "solve" the problem of public transport in poor, black areas, while encouraging small business. Thus was born the unregulated minibus taxi industry.

It all started off well, but soon, instead of a Free Enterprise utopia of owner-operators looking after their vehicles, as was envisaged, owners bought fleets of taxis and "the miracle of the 80's became the nightmare of the 90's" as they engaged in brutal "taxi wars" over routes.

As far as I know, drivers pay "rent" to the owners, and then keep the remainder of the takings for the day, incentivising extreme recklessness and lawlessness as they try to complete as many trips as possible (there are some South African libertarian types who claim minubus taxis are safe, but the road safety figures they cite are certainly incomplete and probably wrong).

Attempts to re-regulate have to a large extent, failed, and when Bus-Rapid-Transit was started in Johannesburg, taxi owners got a cut (with the implicit threat that drivers/passengers would be killed if they didn't).

Yes, there was a general breakdown in law and order during the transitional period in South Africa during the 1990's that wouldn't happen in other countries, but it is a reminder that this sort of business needs to be kept well regulated.

EDIT: There was also an epidemic of violence on trains (an old and decrepit network serving the larger black townships) during the chaos of the early 1990's. As far as I know, the perpetrators were never found, even though elements of the apartheid regime were suspected at the time. The taxi industry had as strong a motive to carry out the attacks as any.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#80

America's effortless transition into a Third-World country continues.

This is a 35 year old system. Also, the US can't be third-world by definition. Third-world just means not aligned with the US or Russia, and is an anachronism.

Everyone knows third-world pretty much means "developing world" nowadays.
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